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Old 06-02-2015, 09:41 AM
 
5,673 posts, read 3,217,069 times
Reputation: 6656

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You six need your own sticky. lol You keep finding each other and taking over peoples threads with your feud.....you do realize its just you on here right? Aren't you feeling like you're on the set of Ground Hogs day??????
Cannot be a debate without opposing views. Rebuttal.

 
Old 06-02-2015, 09:43 AM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,287,811 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You six need your own sticky. lol You keep finding each other and taking over peoples threads with your feud.....you do realize its just you on here right? Aren't you feeling like you're on the set of Ground Hogs day??????
It's like the online 2015 version of Groundhog's Day. I hate the smugness of the people trying to take away my right to choose what goes into my body and the bodies of my children. It irks me like nothing else. But I do agree, this thread is pointless and just a repeat of the same old same old. Going nowhere.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 09:59 AM
 
8,339 posts, read 8,618,738 times
Reputation: 26059
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You six need your own sticky. lol You keep finding each other and taking over peoples threads with your feud.....you do realize its just you on here right? Aren't you feeling like you're on the set of Ground Hogs day??????
Poppy,

I think this might be a good time to address why at least some of us don't let go of the vaccine issue.

The truth is that I grow weary of having to prove many of the same points over and over again. I have a rule or two that I try to follow when I post on this issue:

1. No one will ever find me starting a thread about vaccination.

2. If these topics stop coming up, I will stop posting about them.

What I have done is to resolve not to allow misinformation about this topic to be presented without as good a rebuttal as I can provide. My background is not a scientific one and that's a challenge for me. Yet, I still do the best I can. Perhaps, the best indication of my deep feelings on this subject may be the fact that when I was in London a few years ago, I made a side trip to something called "The Broad Street Pump".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Br...olera_outbreak

I know very well I am not going to convince some people when it comes to this topic. That isn't really my point. I tend to believe there are others who don't post who read these posts and may be "sitting on the fence" when it comes to vaccination. I hope to reach these people and persuade them that vaccination is in the best interests of their children.

Public health is near and dear to me. I believe it to be the most effective (and the most ignored) reason why we have successfully controlled most infectious disease and food borne illness. There is a book written around 2000 titled Betrayal of Trust by the author Laurie Garrett. The author describes how this country has come to neglect public health and reduce its funding, despite huge measurable accomplishments. In end, Garrett states public health is like no other branch of medicine because it requires three things to be successful:

1. Scientific research that produces vaccines and medicines that prevent the spread of infectious disease;

2. People in government and legislative bodies that will vote to adequately fund public health;

3. An informed public that understands the basic concepts of public health and will do its to make public health work. This includes getting vaccinations for yourself and your family. It includes advocacy for public health measures.

As long as people post nonsense about vaccination and other public health measures, I feel a duty to respond.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,569,089 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Poppy,

I think this might be a good time to address why at least some of us don't let go of the vaccine issue.

The truth is that I grow weary of having to prove many of the same points over and over again. I have a rule or two that I try to follow when I post on this issue:

1. No one will ever find me starting a thread about vaccination.

2. If these topics stop coming up, I will stop posting about them.

What I have done is to resolve not to allow misinformation about this topic to be presented without as good a rebuttal as I can provide. My background is not a scientific one and that's a challenge for me. Yet, I still do the best I can. Perhaps, the best indication of my deep feelings on this subject may be the fact that when I was in London a few years ago, I made a side trip to something called "The Broad Street Pump".


1854 Broad Street cholera outbreak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know very well I am not going to convince some people when it comes to this topic. That isn't really my point. I tend to believe there are others who don't post who read these posts and may be "sitting on the fence" when it comes to vaccination. I hope to reach these people and persuade them that vaccination is in the best interests of their children.

Public health is near and dear to me. I believe it to be the most effective (and the most ignored) reason why we have successfully controlled most infectious disease and food borne illness. There is a book written around 2000 titled Betrayal of Trust by the author Laurie Garrett. The author describes how this country has come to neglect public health and reduce its funding, despite huge measurable accomplishments. In end, Garrett states public health is like no other branch of medicine because it requires three things to be successful:

1. Scientific research that produces vaccines and medicines that prevent the spread of infectious disease;

2. People in government and legislative bodies that will vote to adequately fund public health;

3. An informed public that understands the basic concepts of public health and will do its to make public health work. This includes getting vaccinations for yourself and your family. It includes advocacy for public health measures.

As long as people post nonsense about vaccination and other public health measures, I feel a duty to respond.
Oh whatever, people can think for themselves, you're not righteous, you just don't like it when people you don't agree with think for themselves. Whatever floats your boat, being in America you have the right to talk about stripping others rights away if you feel like it. But maybe you could come up with something you haven't said 4,589 times. lol If the "passion" moves you that is.
Your unjustified fear doesn't justify mandating 100 people out of thousands to get vaccinated and you know it. Fight a real cause and maybe you wouldn't have an argument. All your doing is pushing a small minority into the woods and I'm sure you feel good about it, after all according to you they are killing our children.
Have fun at the H-Y-P-E-R-B-O-L-E party.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,569,089 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It's like the online 2015 version of Groundhog's Day. I hate the smugness of the people trying to take away my right to choose what goes into my body and the bodies of my children. It irks me like nothing else. But I do agree, this thread is pointless and just a repeat of the same old same old. Going nowhere.
They get off on it, I wouldn't waste my time. Their club has been around longer than you've been here. We all call them the "vaccine police" on here. lol Same people, same crap, yada and more yada.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,601 posts, read 9,450,571 times
Reputation: 9211
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You six need your own sticky. lol
Five. Unless I WAY miss my guess, two of the six are one and the same person.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 12:15 PM
 
520 posts, read 388,942 times
Reputation: 821
Well my general answer to this is: my children will not get those current vaccinations period. No way in hell. So if it becomes some kind of stale mate so be it, just know that it isn't happening. If that means they go to private school then that's what it'll be.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,601 posts, read 9,450,571 times
Reputation: 9211
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Your unjustified fear doesn't justify mandating 100 people out of thousands to get vaccinated and you know it.
Crikey Poppy, I think you've cracked it!! THIS. I've been wondering about just how significant the "anti-vax" population is relative to the millions upon millions of compliant sheeple (of which I am in that number) that constitute the main herd of Americana. I mean, really, if a very tiny number of unvaccinated people are always among us, does it matter if it is because they are "immuno-compromised" or simply anti-vax? I suspect it does not. And if it does? Then the game is lost anyway so.... it does not matter. It does not matter!! Unless you just need to chase down every last dollar of vaccine revenue out there, because you can.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 12:21 PM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,287,811 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Crikey Poppy, I think you've cracked it!! THIS. I've been wondering about just how significant the "anti-vax" population is relative to the millions upon millions of compliant sheeple (of which I am in that number) that constitute the main herd of Americana. I mean, really, if a very tiny number of unvaccinated people are always among us, does it matter if it is because they are "immuno-compromised" or simply anti-vax? I suspect it does not. And if it does? Then the game is lost anyway so.... it does not matter. It does not matter!! Unless you just need to chase down every last dollar of vaccine revenue out there, because you can.
It's true. Those who do not vaccinate for everything on the schedule make up a tiny minority. The fear of this tiny group is strange.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,601 posts, read 9,450,571 times
Reputation: 9211
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Sure, better medical care would help. Preventing the disease in the first place means you never have to provide heroic measures at all. Besides that, it's cheaper.
How can it POSSIBLY be cheaper to cure hundreds, even thousands of sick people vs vaccinating MILLIONS of them? I'm no mathematician but one has to be in some major denial not to see that a CURE for disease is what the original vaccine inventors were after. The vaccine proved an effective tool and I would be an idiot to argue otherwise. A truly altruistic society would have kept the pressure on and gone for cures even while using vaccines as an effective first line of defense. But no, the low hanging fruit of vaccine therapy becomes the ONLY objective when a new disease enters our realm. Over reliance on vaccine therapy is why Ebola ravaged West Africa. Developing vaccines takes time and has to be tailored to each organism. A systemic cure for all illnesses wouldn't care what the viral agent was it would work to keep the body's integrity no matter what the actual vector of assault was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The majority of American parents vaccinate their children because they believe the experts and their child's doctor. No "emotional blackmail" needed. In fact, the "stories" of unsubstantiated harm repeated on website after anti-vax website are clear attemots at "emotional blackmail".
As I understand it, millions have been paid to families whose representatives were able to prove clear evidence of vaccine harm. I wonder if you were to compile a list of those clearly harmed by vaccine, those clearly not helped by vaccine and included those unvaccinated that sucumbed to disease... would the list of those unvaccinated who sucumbed to disease be longer or shorter than the list of those who were not helped by vaccine or were actually harmed by faulty vaccine. Hmmm.
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