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Old 06-02-2015, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
You are aware that there are those who CANNOT be vaccinated at all because of various medical conditions that prevent it, right. People with immune disorders, on immune modulating medication, people with various types of cancer. These diseases hit these folks harder and with a far higher degree of lethality than the general population.


Measles for example has over a 50% fatality rate in children with compromised immune systems.










This article was featured in Mother Jones, written by a Phoenix area pediatrician whose daughter who was undergoing chemotherapy came down with measles.




To the Parent of the Unvaccinated Child Who Exposed My Family to Measles
Yes, we are all aware - that is why people with compromised immune systems are a priority FOR vaccination.

I have yet to see a legitimate answer to the question however. Just photos of poor little kids fighting outrageous diseases. If the vaccines work, one would think those priority status people would be fine.

If they have to worry about ANY germ they may happen upon, then I refer you to the 1970s movie staring John Travolta - The boy in the Plastic Bubble. If the vaccines dont work - they still need that bubble.

And no - Im not suggesting every parent stick their kid in a bubble, nor am I suggesting that public schoold districts forego a vaccination requirement like I honestly thought they already did have. The requirement was there when I went to school, but I did not go to school in CA.

But really, if these people have faith in the vaccines themselves, and dont look for excuses themselves NOT to have their priority status child vaccinated, then how is their a problem if someone elses kid is not vaccinated?

Shouldnt the vaccine still protect them? And if it doesnt, what makes anyone think the same vaccine in someone else will do the trick?

 
Old 06-02-2015, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Yes, we are all aware - that is why people with compromised immune systems are a priority FOR vaccination.

I have yet to see a legitimate answer to the question however. Just photos of poor little kids fighting outrageous diseases. If the vaccine work, one would those people would be fine.











Nowhere in your response did you show that you comprehend that there are people who CANNOT(not because they don't want to), but simply CANNOT be vaccinated because of their medical status. Not that they are a "priority" such as people 65 and over might be for a flu vaccine, but that because medically, they cannot receive vaccinations and thus they depend upon the healthy people around them to be vaccinated to offer them protection by extension through herd immunity.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post









Nowhere in your response did you show that you contemplate that there are people who CANNOT(not because they don't want to), but simply CANNOT be vaccinated because of their medical status. Not that they are a "priority" such as people 65 and over might be for a flu vaccine, but that because medically, they cannot and thus they depend upon the healthy people around them to be vaccinated to offer them protection by extension through herd immunity.
I love pompous people who simply use subdefuge to try to negate a question, and pick and chose from a series of questions what they want to reply to, as in, what serves their purpose.

But, thank you for opening the door to the same questions shifting to another venue - the people that CANNOT have vaccines.

What measures are being taken to keep them away from each other? By the same reasoning, they are a clear danger to each other - are they not?
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Some folks in this thread need to read the bolded and underlined part as many times as it takes for the information to fully sink in.







T
Quote:
This would also solve another problem, often glanced over: There are many people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons, either because they are too young, or because they have other conditions that prevent them from acquiring immunity through vaccination.




Herd immunity against measles requires that 90 percent to 95 percent of theentire population are immune, whereas vaccination coverage is measured as the percentage vaccinated of the target population – which only includes people who are eligible for vaccination. This means that to achieve 95 percent immunity in the population for measles, vaccination coverage needs to be higher than 95 percent. This is the scientific argument for a public health policy that aims at 100 percent vaccination coverage.




More importantly, there is an ethical argument to be made for the goal of 100 percent vaccination coverage. It sends the right message. Everyone who can get vaccinated, should get vaccinated – not only to protect themselves, but to protect those who can’t, through herd immunity.



Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Some folks in this thread need to read the bolded and underlined part as many times as it takes for the information to fully sink in.







T




Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post

Okay, it doesnt answer my question though, lol. Obviously according to the Washington Post headline - they are a clear danger to each other. Are they being banned from school too?
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I love pompous people who simply use subdefuge to try to negate a question, and pick and chose from a series of questions what they want to reply to, as in, what serves their purpose.

But, thank you for opening the door to the same questions shifting to another venue - the people that CANNOT have vaccines.

What measures are being taken to keep them away from each other? By the same reasoning, they are a clear danger to each other - are they not?


I believe the word you were trying to use is subterfuge.



The people that cannot be vaccinated depend on the general population as a whole for protection. If measles does not exist in the general population, the immuno-compromised have no fear of catching measles just as they have no fear of catching smallpox or polio which were eliminated through vaccination.

You can't spread diseases that don't exist in a given population. Measles was pretty much up there with smallpox and polio back in 2001 but thanks to people's paranoid fears and taking their medical advice from shady tinfoil conspiracy theory websites and Jenny McCarthy, measles infections in the U.S. have been steadily increasing as overall immunization for measles has been decreasing.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Okay, it doesnt answer my question though, lol. Obviously according to the Washington Post headline - they are a clear danger to each other. Are they being banned from school too?



Your attempt to be clever by inserting a strawman into the discussion really isn't all that clever. If humor was your attempt, it fell flat and if you are being serious, then might I recommend cracking a microbiology text or perhaps taking a micro or immunology course on line. If you go through Coursera they are completely free.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Okay, let's say 60% - 75% of a given school shows up with a medical certification that they are allergic to chickens, and eggs, and other substances in the vaccine. Are the compromised children that share these same issues rerouted or bused to schools with better "herd immunity" ratios?

Your attempt to be clever yourself is working wonders at opening minds - I guess that's how yours gets opened, and that's why you chose it as your preferred method. *shrugs*
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Okay, let's say 60% - 75% of a given school shows up with a medical certification *



Let's say a giant purple dinosaur walks in and starts eating all of the children, then what...
 
Old 06-02-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Let's say a giant purple dinosaur walks in and starts eating all of the children, then what...
Thank you for being open and honest enough to not admit that you have no point or legitmate reply. No one could ask for better from you.
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