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Old 06-02-2015, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

So, out of 30000 reports a year, hundreds of serious injuries, hundreds of deaths over the last ten years. Enough to start a National Vaccine injury vaccination program. You're convincing argument is none of it is true? Or, it's worth it to kill and injure that many to save a few? Or, that its your choice to make and out weigh the risks vs benefits for your own chil...........oh wait, not that one right? That last one has been eliminated.
Poppy, every one of those VAERS reports gets investigated - if there is enough info in the report to allow it. Every. Single. One.

The deaths being reported are just overwhelmingly not due to vaccines. When the investigation is done, it is most often determined that the vaccine is not responsible. Despite those who believe there is some insane conspiracy to hide complications from vaccines, it does not work that way. Doctors really do not want to be using bad vaccines. Severe adverse reactions to vaccines are so rare most doctors will never see one.

If you are basing a decision not to vaccinate on VAERS, you are making a decision based on ignorance.

The vaccine injury program compensates people who have adverse effects that can possibly have been caused by vaccines. It is in response to a litigation problem that could have made vaccines unaffordable or even totally unavailable. Vaccines do cause adverse effects. They are just very, very rare. VAERS reports do not change that fact.

No, vaccines are not killing hundreds of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That's a lot of compensation for false reports. They're so nice. Of course you can't link any of it to the vaccine, but we will pay you anyway. Yea, right.
No, that is very generous compensation for what might be adverse effects due to vaccines. It is not necessary to conclusively prove the vaccine caused the adverse effect.

 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,787 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...mp/vaccomp.htm
That's a lot of compensation for false reports. They're so nice. Of course you can't link any of it to the vaccine, but we will pay you anyway. Yea, right.


Once again, you're showing a lack of understanding, much as you did with VAERS. If you took the time to understand these systems, the way they are setup and what it means, you could be more informed and do without the sarcasm laden posts.


Quote:



According to Health and Human Services, 3,887 compensation awards have been paid since the first claims were filed in 1989. Another 9,860 claims were dismissed.
A total of 633 petitions were filed seeking payment in fiscal year 2014. Petitions peaked in fiscal year 2003 when 2,592 claims were filed.
This data is far from perfect. But what it shows is that in the last 25 years, the fund has paid out claims to 3,887 people -- which translates to an average of 155 paid claims per year.



Quote:

"The vaccine compensation program ... provides a bit more linkage between cause and effect, but the rulings are decided in a court of law, and science may or may not play a big role in the finding," Troisi told us. "It’s also very hard to prove cause and effect on an individual case, which is what is happening with these findings."



What CDC statistics say about vaccine-related illnesses, injuries and death | PunditFact














So since the late 80's, about 4,000 claims have been paid out, another 10,000 or so have been rejected. As the article mentioned, it breaks down to an average of 155 paid claims per year.




Considering that over a hundred million doses of vaccines are given out in the U.S. on an annual basis, 155 paid claims amounts to less than a 0.001% total of all vaccinations just with that low total estimate.







Now compare that to acetaminophen use which results in over 20,000-50,000 emergency room visits due to non-abuse related use of the drug which goes along with hundreds of deaths annually. How many times have you taken acetaminophen or given it to your children when they were sick, and that's only used as a measure to modulate the symptoms of an illness, headache or other moderate pain, compared to vaccines which actually prohibit an illness to begin with.

http://www.propublica.org/article/ty...nd-the-numbers
Quote:
Data compiled by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has linked as many as 980 deaths in a year to drugs containing acetaminophen. In addition, FDA reports of death associated with acetaminophen have been increasing faster than those for aspirin, ibuprofen and many other common over-the-counter pain medicines.
Data obtained from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that more than 300 people die annually as a result of acetaminophen poisoning.
Beginning in 2006, according to the CDC, the number of people who died after accidentally taking too much acetaminophen surpassed the number who died from intentionally overdosing to commit suicide.

In light of the overall numbers, I'd say that the vaccine compensation system further supports the overall safety of vaccines.

Last edited by Juram; 06-02-2015 at 11:15 PM..
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Poppy, every one of those VAERS reports gets investigated - if there is enough info in the report to allow it. Every. Single. One.

The deaths being reported are just overwhelmingly not due to vaccines. When the investigation is done, it is most often determined that the vaccine is not responsible. Despite those who believe there is some insane conspiracy to hide complications from vaccines, it does not work that way. Doctors really do not want to be using bad vaccines. Severe adverse reactions to vaccines are so rare most doctors will never see one.

If you are basing a decision not to vaccinate on VAERS, you are making a decision based on ignorance.

The vaccine injury program compensates people who have adverse effects that can possibly have been caused by vaccines. It is in response to a litigation problem that could have made vaccines unaffordable or even totally unavailable. Vaccines do cause adverse effects. They are just very, very rare. VAERS reports do not change that fact.

No, vaccines are not killing hundreds of people.



No, that is very generous compensation for what might be adverse effects due to vaccines. It is not necessary to conclusively prove the vaccine caused the adverse effect.
Right, very generous indeed. VAERS reports aren't considered in reporting the safety of vaccines, clinical trials are. And might I correct your sentence involving choice, you aren't giving decision making to a parent, your trying to coerced parents into vaccinating. You know I've made the choice to vaccinate yet you continue to use the anti vax label when addressing me because you have nothing else. I'm pro choice, with this many reported injuries from parents, hospitals and doctors making this decision for others is strictly prohibited in my mind. Parents should be freely allowed to make their decisions based on ALL the testimony, not mandated with threats of no education, or physician care. You people could very well seriously hurt or kill someone.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477
A lawyer discusses the vaccine compensation program:

Congressional Briefing Attempts to Discredit Vaccine Injury Compensation | Shot of Prevention
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Once again, you're showing a lack of understanding, much as you did with VAERS. If you took the time to understand these systems, the way they are setup and what it means, you could be more informed and do without the sarcasm laden posts.







What CDC statistics say about vaccine-related illnesses, injuries and death | PunditFact














So since the late 80's, about 4,000 claims have been paid out, another 10,000 or so have been rejected. As the article mentioned, it breaks down to an average of 155 paid claims per year.i


(I wasn't aware we were mandating Tylenol?
I put the info out there, people can decide if all of these cases are coincidence or not. I'm not anti vax, but good try, I'm pro choice. )

Considering that over a hundred million doses of vaccines are given out in the U.S. on an annual basis, 155 paid claims amounts to less than a 0.001% total of all vaccinations just with that low total estimate.







Now compare that to acetaminophen use which results in over 20,000-50,000 emergency room visits due to non-abuse related use of the drug which goes along with hundreds of deaths annually. How many times have you taken acetaminophen or given it to your children when they were sick, and that's only used as a measure to modulate the symptoms of an illness, headache or other moderate pain, compared to vaccines which actually prohibit an illness to begin with.

Behind the Numbers - ProPublica



In light of the overall numbers, I'd say that the vaccine compensation system further supports the overall safety of vaccines.
Yes, of course you would, didn't expect anything different. You're debating, you'll try and support your argument.
FYI, if you don't like my tone, you're an adult, don't respond. You have an ignore feature just like I do. Get over it. To eliminate me, feel free to report me to the mods.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Right, very generous indeed. VAERS reports aren't considered in reporting the safety of vaccines, clinical trials are. And might I correct your sentence involving choice, you aren't giving decision making to a parent, your trying to coerced parents into vaccinating. You know I've made the choice to vaccinate yet you continue to use the anti vax label when addressing me because you have nothing else. I'm pro choice, with this many reported injuries from parents, hospitals and doctors making this decision for others is strictly prohibited in my mind. Parents should be freely allowed to make their decisions based on ALL the testimony, not mandated with threats of no education, or physician care. You people could very well seriously hurt or kill someone.
Not all of the "reported injuries from parents" are truly caused by vaccines. Very, very, very, very few of them are.

Did you not read the examples Juram gave?

People are in fact dying - but it's from vaccine preventable diseases, not vaccines. The child who gets vaccinated to go to school may very well have been one of those deaths if he had not been vaccinated, and that is a far more likely scenario than someone being harmed or dying from a vaccine.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immu...rt6-1-2015.pdf

Whooping cough in California:

"2,552 cases with onset in 2015 have been reported to CDPH.
o More than 300 cases were reported occurring in each of the months of January,
February and March. While this is lower than the peak in May 2014, it remains above
the interepidemic levels seen in 2013.
o 93 cases have been hospitalized; 20 (22%) of these required intensive care
 62 (67%) of hospitalized patients were infants <4 months of age.
o One death has been reported in an infant that was <3 weeks of age at the time of
disease onset.
"
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
That's a pro vax website.....
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,787 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Right, very generous indeed. VAERS reports aren't considered in reporting the safety of vaccines, clinical trials are. And might I correct your sentence involving choice, you aren't giving decision making to a parent, your trying to coerced parents into vaccinating. You know I've made the choice to vaccinate yet you continue to use the anti vax label when addressing me because you have nothing else. I'm pro choice, with this many reported injuries from parents, hospitals and doctors making this decision for others is strictly prohibited in my mind. Parents should be freely allowed to make their decisions based on ALL the testimony, not mandated with threats of no education, or physician care. You people could very well seriously hurt or kill someone.



Who is "you people", the vast majority of the world's medical establishment, people who have their own kids and families who are trusting the same scientific data that they are asking their patients to trust.


If everyone thought rationally and people didn't end up buying into idiotic conspiracy theories, the notion that each person was capable of making an informed choice would be perfectly reasonable, however as we are seeing the return of diseases that were largely eradicated and in some schools you're seeing ultra-low rates of immunization, particularly since anti-vaxxers seem to like to cluster, why should the public in general be held hostage by the whims of a small minority.


Vaccination used to be a straightforward process, I'm not even that old and I remember that growing up, it was never something that you thought twice about. It wasn't until the late 90's when that discredited quack Wakefield and his falsified data drove a whole lot of people into fearing autism and other links to vaccination that simply don't exist.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That's a pro vax website.....
Yes. The author is an attorney, however. Did you bother to read what she said about the vaccine compensation program from a legal point of view?

If you are not anti-vax, you certainly do not sound like it. Why did you post this earlier in the thread?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/39867955-post821.html
 
Old 06-02-2015, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Not all of the "reported injuries from parents" are truly caused by vaccines. Very, very, very, very few of them are.

Did you not read the examples Juram gave?

People are in fact dying - but it's from vaccine preventable diseases, not vaccines. The child who gets vaccinated to go to school may very well have been one of those deaths if he had not been vaccinated, and that is a far more likely scenario than someone being harmed or dying from a vaccine.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immu...rt6-1-2015.pdf

Whooping cough in California:

"2,552 cases with onset in 2015 have been reported to CDPH.
o More than 300 cases were reported occurring in each of the months of January,
February and March. While this is lower than the peak in May 2014, it remains above
the interepidemic levels seen in 2013.
o 93 cases have been hospitalized; 20 (22%) of these required intensive care
 62 (67%) of hospitalized patients were infants <4 months of age.
o One death has been reported in an infant that was <3 weeks of age at the time of
disease onset.
"
You can prove those were from the illnesses, they could have had previously undiscovered immune systems or similar that were really the cause. Sound familiar?
Ug.. same old dribble. I don't wish you well in your agenda, have fun though, you seem to enjoy stripping people of their decision making. Hope your conscious can handle all the upped reports of side effects that will be occurring with the mandates.
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