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Old 06-03-2015, 07:19 AM
 
8,308 posts, read 8,589,144 times
Reputation: 25929

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The pertussis vaccine is not very effective. You can't just sit around and blame people who don't vaccinate for pertussis outbreaks. Even families who all get vaccinated for pertussis when they have a newborn are at risk.
The vaccine isn't perfect, but still represents an enormous public health achievement. I dispute your characterization of the vaccine as "not being very effective".

Prior to introduction of the vaccine in 1940's, there were 200,000 cases of whooping cough every year and there were approximately 9,000 deaths. Today, there are somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 cases of whooping cough per year and only 10-20 deaths.

Keep in mind that the population of the USA was less than half of what it is today in 1945. So, without the vaccine, we'd be seeing at least 400,000 cases of whooping cough a year. I'm sure the death rate would be lower because of antibiotics and other care. However, deaths would be much higher than the 10-20 per year that we see how and there would a huge amount of hospital space being taken up by those sick with whooping cough.

Families may still be at risk today from whooping cough, but the reduction in risk is literally overwhelming. Its all about benefit vs. risk and those who are able to evaluate such a thing understand fully the improvement accomplished by the vaccine.



Pertussis | Whooping Cough | Frequently Asked Questions | CDC

 
Old 06-03-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,513 posts, read 26,128,168 times
Reputation: 26486
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The pertussis vaccine is not very effective. You can't just sit around and blame people who don't vaccinate for pertussis outbreaks. Even families who all get vaccinated for pertussis when they have a newborn are at risk.
Outbreaks are happening in communities with low vaccination rates.

Vaccination Opt-Outs Found to Contribute to Whooping Cough Outbreaks in Kids - Scientific American

"Now, a study reveals that parental refusals to vaccinate their children may have played a part in that epidemic and possibly in a concurrent nationwide resurgence of the disease. The research found significant overlaps of areas with high numbers of whooping cough cases and areas where more parents had sought legal exemptions to opt out vaccinating their children."

Texas Megachurch At Center Of Measles Outbreak : NPR

Amish Country's Forgotten Measles Outbreak | Al Jazeera America

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Right. If I posted a link to a website that was even remotely anti-vax (including VAERS) I would be raked through the coals for it but I see some posters who are extremely pro vax post links to pro vax blogs over and over again that come across as propaganda. They don't seem to be able understand that those are not unbiased sources.
VAERS is not anti-vax. That's the whole problem. It says nothing about cause and effect, despite the Herculean efforts of the anti-vax to use the reports to support their agenda.

If someone says something about vaccines that you do not want to hear, it is automatically "biased". I do not think I have ever seen you actually refute anything I have posted with sound scientific evidence. You either charge "bias" or just say you do not believe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You're so dismissive of the idea that anyone has been hurt by vaccines. It's ignorant. Vaccines sometimes do have dangerous side effects. It's really rude to be so dismissive of any and all claims. Some of the bad reactions are real.
Some of the bad reactions are real, there are just nowhere near as many bad reactions as there are anti-vax allegations of bad reactions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
That is not choice. That is coercion.
No, that is accepting that your choices have consequences. Anyone who will vaccinate in order to send a child to school obviously did not have reservations about the safety of vaccination. Otherwise, he would not vaccinate.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 07:38 AM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,268,314 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

If someone says something about vaccines that you do not want to hear, it is automatically "biased". I do not think I have ever seen you actually refute anything I have posted with sound scientific evidence. You either charge "bias" or just say you do not believe it.
Whatever, Mark, I mean, Suzy. You and I have been in these debates before and you know that I have in the past but I see it as completely pointless at this point in time. This thread in particular has more to do with personal liberty then it does with vaccines anyway.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 07:40 AM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,268,314 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
No, that is accepting that your choices have consequences. Anyone who will vaccinate in order to send a child to school obviously did not have reservations about the safety of vaccination. Otherwise, he would not vaccinate.
This one in particular involves the choice to inject or not to inject substances, including toxins into my body and the bodies of my children. Threatening to take away our right to a public education if we don't comply is a threat. It's not a choice and if you can't see that then you are delusional.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,513 posts, read 26,128,168 times
Reputation: 26486
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
This one in particular involves the choice to inject or not to inject substances, including toxins into my body and the bodies of my children. Threatening to take away our right to a public education if we don't comply is a threat. It's not a choice and if you can't see that then you are delusional.
The delusion is that anything in vaccines is "toxic".
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,553,337 times
Reputation: 7421
Vaccine Court Aims To Protect Patients And Vaccines : Shots - Health News : NPR
You know what's really toxic, forced vaccines when people don't have legal action available if injuries occur because drug companies are immune to law suits. It's amazing in America that you can apply mandatory medical care from companies with no liability.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,553,337 times
Reputation: 7421
Mexico Vaccination Infant Deaths: 2 Babies Die From Bad Vaccines, Government Suspends Certain Immunizations Nationwide
Mexico doesn't ignore this crap, they suspend vaccines when babies die.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,437 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post


And they discovered that the deaths were from localized bacterial contamination, not the vaccines themselves.


Mexico Officials: Bacterial Infections Sickened Children - ABC News

Quote:
Mexican health authorities say bacterial infections, and not contaminated vaccines, were responsible for the deaths of two infants and the sickening of 31 other babies earlier this month in the southern state of Chiapas.
The Mexican Institute for Social Security said Friday that investigators identified Staphylococcus hominis. It said early suspicions that the illnesses stemmed from a contaminated Hepatitis B vaccine were incorrect.
Investigators found the bacterial contamination occurred when the vaccine was given to the children in the Indian village of La Pimienta in the township of Simojovel. There were no other adverse reactions in any of the more than 100,000 doses of the same vaccine given in other parts of Mexico since October.



Keep pushing that emotion-driven rhetoric though.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,437 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Right. If I posted a link to a website that was even remotely anti-vax (including VAERS) I would be raked through the coals for it but I see some posters who are extremely pro vax post links to pro vax blogs over and over again that come across as propaganda. They don't seem to be able understand that those are not unbiased sources.

VAERS isn't anti-vax, VAERS isn't anti-anything, its a general all purpose clearinghouse made for researchers, medical professionals and epidemiologists to look for signals of commonly related issues with vaccines that warrant further investigation.


VAERS however does not require any form of verification, anybody can make a report to VAERS for any reason that they choose, a medical professional need not be involved at all. That alone means that you can't take any of the information at face value and the reports need to be further investigated to see if they are at all credible.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,437 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You're so dismissive of the idea that anyone has been hurt by vaccines. It's ignorant. Vaccines sometimes do have dangerous side effects. It's really rude to be so dismissive of any and all claims. Some of the bad reactions are real.


Vaccines do have side effects, nobody has denied that at all, however we're talking about an extremely small percentage of the total doses delivered. You're talking about a hundred million+ doses of vaccine delivered each year and the Vaccine Court has seen fit to compensate a grand total of 155 per year average. That is less than 1 percent of 1 percent of the total vaccine's used in this country.
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