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Old 06-03-2015, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Americas transformation to a socialist government is unwarranted and driven by people like you who are hyperbolic. It's pretty transparent.


Its always the paranoid ones who think good public health policy is some sort of evil Communist or Nazi plot.


Requiring your kids to be vaccinated to attend school in the hopes of not bringing back some dangerous diseases that were pretty much eliminated until all this anti-vaccination idiocy started is not inherently asking too much. The Courts in this country have long recognized the legality of compulsory vaccination as being in the public interest. It isn't some new thing that just happened.

 
Old 06-03-2015, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,550,354 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
How about this? Door to Door Vaccinations.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjMRaNuxpjc

Just children? How about everyone??????? I think that woman's reaction would be the most common. Healthy People 2020 did suggest just that to achieve higher vaccination rates; door to door shots.

Not a Police State?
Kiss your freedom good bye Joe. Despite our stellar record of making good choices, putting a spin on fear can work. Thank the media. It WILL bite them in the arse, time will tell if this move helps or harms more children. If the injury reports increase and outbreaks still occur after the mandates it will be a sad event.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Kiss your freedom good bye Joe. Despite our stellar record of making good choices, putting a spin on fear can work. Thank the media. It WILL bite them in the arse, time will tell if this move helps or harms more children. If the injury reports increase and outbreaks still occur after the mandates it will be a sad event.

The sad thing is that mandates didn't used to be required, people went and got vaccinated, its just what you did. It was the common sense and rational thing to do.

Then the anti-vaccine lunacy caught full tilt and that is the reason why we went from zero measles cases in this country to having them increase every single year as the unvaccinated bring back stowaways from their travels to lands afar to infect others here in the U.S.


Its only a matter of time before the next outbreak of a completely preventable disease.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,550,354 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Its always the paranoid ones who think good public health policy is some sort of evil Communist or Nazi plot.


Requiring your kids to be vaccinated to attend school in the hopes of not bringing back some dangerous diseases that were pretty much eliminated until all this anti-vaccination idiocy started is not inherently asking too much. The Courts in this country have long recognized the legality of compulsory vaccination as being in the public interest. It isn't some new thing that just happened.
Link the Nazi plot you're exaggerating. Your comments are anything but level headed. Painting parents who don't agree with mandates when our vaccine rate is one of the highest in the world voluntarily isn't a conspiracy. You're over reaction to it is telling.
These mandates are fueled by people like you who get scared about everything, and believe controlling others is your right. Be careful with this as it tends to bite you in the ..........

Stop the fear mongering, it's a dangerous method of control and doesn't turn out well. Ironic you mentioned the Nazi's, I never did.
Education would help you see that Americans have made good choices regarding vaccines in the past with clear transparent information without scare tactics. I'm not so sure how forced medication in a free country will turn out though. Time will tell.
You're going to unnecessary lengths. We don't have a disease epidemic in America. If fear of it happening warrants coercive action, think of the ramifications. Yikes.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
The sad thing is that mandates didn't used to be required, people went and got vaccinated, its just what you did. It was the common sense and rational thing to do.

Then the anti-vaccine lunacy caught full tilt and that is the reason why we went from zero measles cases in this country to having them increase every single year as the unvaccinated bring back stowaways from their travels to lands afar to infect others here in the U.S.


Its only a matter of time before the next outbreak of a completely preventable disease.
There were not as many shots as there are today.
And it's not always Americans bringing it back.
We do not check immunization records of foreigners coming to this country.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post

Stop the fear mongering, it's a dangerous method of control and doesn't turn out well. .




Irony. "WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES." "Big Pharma", "Mercury in the vaccines", "Population control", "30,000 INJURY REPORTS!!!."

I'd say that the science-denying folks have the fear-mongering on lockdown.


The anti-vaccine movement can't stand on facts so people rely on emotion and manipulation of data to try and push their agenda. Its why all the exact same talking points are used, ad nauseum, no matter how many times they may get debunked.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Irony. "WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES." "Big Pharma", "Mercury in the vaccines", "Population control", "30,000 INJURY REPORTS!!!."

I'd say that the science-denying folks have the fear-mongering on lockdown.


The anti-vaccine movement can't stand on facts so people rely on emotion and manipulation of data to try and push their agenda. Its why all the exact same talking points are used, ad nauseum, no matter how many times they may get debunked.
One could say the same about the vax crowd. Showing pictures of people in iron lungs when talking about measles is manipulation.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
There were not as many shots as there are today.

Nope, and even with those shots you are getting a significantly lowered antigen load than you receive two or three decades ago with fewer shots. That means a reduced burden on the immune system.
Quote:

In 1960, kids got up to 3,217 different antigens from the smallpox, polio, diphtheria, tetanus and whole cell pertussis vaccine.
In 1980, even as MMR replaced the smallpox vaccine, the antigen count in the vaccines kids got was still up to 3,041.
Purer Vaccines

Even with many more vaccines, the number of different antigens that children will get with today's immunization schedule is much lower than just 35 or 55 years ago:
  • DTaP/Tdap - 7 antigens
  • MMR - 24 antigens
  • IPV - 15 antigens
  • Hib - 2 antigens
  • Varicella - 69 antigens
  • Prevnar13 - 14 antigens
  • hepatitis A - 4 antigens
  • hepatitis B - 1 antigens
  • MCV4 - 5 antigens
  • HPV9 - 9 antigens
  • rotavirus - 15 antigens
  • Flu - 12 antigens
That's just 177 different antigens in 12 vaccines that protect children against 16 vaccine-preventable diseases.
That's still less than the 200 antigens that were in the smallpox vaccine that kids got 100 years ago.

Quote:
And it's not always Americans bringing it back.
Pretty much universally it has been unvaccinated Americans traveling to other countries and then coming back and spreading it to other unvaccinated and vulnerable individuals. In one recent outbreak in Ohio it was Amish men traveling to the Philippines who came back infected with the measles.


In 2000, the U.S. didn't have a single recorded case of measles. Since then, as immunization rates have gone down, measles rates have steadily climbed on a regular basis.



Quote:
We do not check immunization records of foreigners coming to this country.
Nope and yet many of those foreigners are coming to the U.S. from nations with higher rates of vaccination than what the U.S. has. As mentioned, the U.S. had a whole year with no measles cases, yet I'm pretty sure people didn't just stop traveling here during that time period. The link between decreasing immunizations and increasing measles and whooping coughs infections isn't even questionable at this point.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
One could say the same about the vax crowd. Showing pictures of people in iron lungs when talking about measles is manipulation.


Not at all. Its showing where vaccination has been of tremendous benefit to society. The polio vaccine has worked everywhere it has been used. The same with the smallpox vaccine. We've basically eliminated dangerous diseases through vaccination, saving millions of lives in the process, it is why vaccination is widely considered to be the greatest public health achievement in the modern era.


The difference is discussing real life consequences versus nonsensical fear-mongering about mercury in vaccines which isn't found in the vast majority of vaccines and was never shown to be as harmful as the tinfoil wearers claimed. Endless conspiracies about "population control", "evil Big Pharma" and other nonsense really kill any credibility that the anti-vaxxers have.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Nope, and even with those shots you are getting a significantly lowered antigen load than you receive two or three decades ago with fewer shots. That means a reduced burden on the immune system.


Pretty much universally it has been unvaccinated Americans traveling to other countries and then coming back and spreading it to other unvaccinated and vulnerable individuals. In one recent outbreak in Ohio it was Amish men traveling to the Philippines who came back infected.


In 2000, the U.S. didn't have a single recorded case of measles. Since then, as immunization rates have gone down, measles rates have steadily climbed on a regular basis.




Nope and yet many of those foreigners are coming to the U.S. from nations with higher rates of vaccination than what the U.S. has. As mentioned, the U.S. had a whole year with no measles cases, yet I'm pretty sure people didn't just stop traveling here during that time period. The link between decreasing immunizations and increasing measles and whooping coughs infections isn't even questionable at this point.
I grew up when measles was just another childhood disease you got before going to school.
I see that younger folks today have a fear and panic about measles, mumps, chicken pox etc.

No one wants to get sick, not even a cold.
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