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Their rights do not always trump societies though.
This is the key of course. You live in a certain society, you abide by the rules and the norms, particularly when it comes to the topic of public health which touches us all.
First of all, I don't actually believe this will become the law. It probably should but you know how that goes. Secondly, if it's really a problem for people, if they really think this is some sort of violence against their kids by the state, there are plenty of other states. Isn't that the usual snappy comeback when a state makes a law some people don't like? We all have plenty of freedom to make choices and do what we want, but nobody ever has or ever will get to do whatever they what whenever they want wherever they want.
As far as vaccines go, I believe in them totally. I also believe that alternative vaccination schedules should be available for people as long as the big-bads are covered by the time they get to school. It may not be AS GOOD but it's good enough IMO.
If you support mandatory vaccines without exemptions for school entry then it is a matter of all or nothing with no exceptions. At some point vaccines that you may not agree with may end up on the schedule and you'll have no way to opt out. Many people are very pro vaccine for most vaccines but may not like the flu vaccine or the Gardasil vaccine. At some point these people who are ok with mandating all of the other vaccines will find themselves being forced to comply with getting the flu vaccine and the Gardasil vaccine as well when they get added to the list of vaccines that are required for school entry. That list has changed over time and will continue to change in the future. Maybe someday there will be something on the list that you don't agree with but you'll have to get it anyway. This sets a dangerous precedent.
You say "pay taxes for them" as if doing so allows you unlimited rights to have your kid be in school. If your kid is disruptive, he'll get kicked out, regardless of your "taxes."
It has been recognized that these rights are not unlimited, not open ended and certainly can come with conditions. Requiring vaccination to attend a public school is not asking anything unusual or excessive of someone, its a very basic, straightforward standard that is accepted by the vast majority of people, has been found to be proper and legal by the courts and is simply a basic part of being a responsible citizen.
The right to an education is a right. There is no such thing as the right to not be exposed to people. You do realize that there are tons of unvaccinated adults out in public. Do you go out in public?
So the Constitution is valid, but not the Declaration of Independence that the Constitution is based on?
Hmm, they are two different documents. You need a refresher course in US History.
By the way, the Constitution provides the framework on which our laws are established. It does not in itself make laws.
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Originally Posted by dysgenic
So forcing injections with chemical filled needles on innocent children is not real violence? What is it, fake violence?
You really don't believe that forcefully taking a sharp object filled with potentially harmful chemicals and piercing the skin of an innocent child is violence?
You do not have to vaccinate, no one will make you do it unless there is an epidemic in which your not doing so threatens the well being of your child or the community as a whole.
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Originally Posted by Mangokiwi
But they don't though, because if vaccines truly work, they prevent that person from getting the disease. Therefore, the vaccinated people are safe no matter what the unvaccinated people choose to do.
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Originally Posted by dysgenic
All of this is only true if vaccines aren't effective in the first place. Otherwise those that get vaccinated should have no problem whatsoever with those that don't.
This has been discussed up thread. Repeating the comment does not give it validity.
The right to an education is a right. There is no such thing as the right to not be exposed to people. You do realize that there are tons of unvaccinated adults out in public. Do you go out in public?
Its not an unlimited right as you seem to be insinuating. Just as shouting "fire" in a crowded facility or theater is not a legal application of your right to free speech.
There are conditions that must be observed, in several states and soon California, that condition is being properly vaccinated. Don't like it, don't send your kids to a public school.
People are always free to go live elsewhere, educate their kids elsewhere, and generally live their lives the way they want. .
This freedom does not exist in the way that you infer. That's a big part of the point.
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Their rights do not always trump societies though.
Of course they do! That's the whole point of having a republic form of government. 'Society' is not a living, breathing person. 'Society' has no rights. And even if 'society' had rights, those rights would certainly not included the violent forced injection of chemicals into innocent children by needle.
The notion that the collective has power over the individual is a basic tenet right from Marx, Lenin, and other communists. Do you support communism?
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It's a fine line, some people don't get what they want when the bigger picture is more important than their individual preferences, but it's not VIOLENCE nor is a GUN TO A HEAD involved. It's more "I can't do whatever I want here".
It's not a fine line at all. The line is crystal clear. It is absolutely violence at the point of a loaded gun.
S
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o yes, I completely favor this sort of "violence against children". Most reasonable people do
I don't agree that ANY reasonable person favors violence against innocent children.
You say "pay taxes for them" as if doing so allows you unlimited rights to have your kid be in school. If your kid is disruptive, he'll get kicked out, regardless of your "taxes."
It has been recognized that these rights are not unlimited, not open ended and certainly can come with conditions. Requiring vaccination to attend a public school is not asking anything unusual or excessive of someone, its a very basic, straightforward standard that is accepted by the vast majority of people, has been found to be proper and legal by the courts and is simply a basic part of being a responsible citizen.
Violence against innocent children is unreasonable, in my opinion.
This is the key of course. You live in a certain society, you abide by the rules and the norms, particularly when it comes to the topic of public health which touches us all.
Violence, force, and coercion is against the law in America.
Its not an unlimited right as you seem to be insinuating. Just as shouting "fire" in a crowded facility or theater is not a legal application of your right to free speech.
There are conditions that must be observed, in several states and soon California, that condition is being properly vaccinated. Don't like it, don't send your kids to a public school.
If this type of legislation passed in my state I would homeschool but this isn't about me nor is it limited to vaccinations. I believe that people should be able to decide what they inject into their bodies without coercion. I think it's dangerous to allow the government to make that decision for people and use education as the bribe. It's frightening that so many on board with this type of legislation.
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