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How many children under 12 months exactly were there? In fact, a break-down of the total number of sick people by age and reason for vaccine exception should prove instructive. In the case of the California School System especially instructive. If Social Engineering does not fit the definition of what is being attempted there I don't know what the term means. Healthy, vaccinated children should have no fear of unvaccinated children and immunocompromised or otherwise unvaccinatable children should either take their chances, which are quite good. Or they should not be in a public school. Period. End of Story!
Can you agree that if the access to medical intervention to support the sick was widely available in the Third World that there would be fewer, perhaps no deaths from an illness like measles? I include America in that Third World designation. And the "emotional blackmail" is only needed on American soil. In the Third World the U.S. uses much more effective economic sanctions and treaties, etc. to achieve our commercial aims abroad
Sure, better medical care would help. Preventing the disease in the first place means you never have to provide heroic measures at all. Besides that, it's cheaper.
The majority of American parents vaccinate their children because they believe the experts and their child's doctor. No "emotional blackmail" needed. In fact, the "stories" of unsubstantiated harm repeated on website after anti-vax website are clear attemots at "emotional blackmail".
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Measles does not crash a bodies organs like Ebola does. Neither does the Flu. If as many Ebola patients have been saved as have been saved the pulling people through Measles should be child's play. My parents pulled my brother and I through it and no hospital was necessary.
Measles can kill. Flu can kill. Measles can affect just about every organ system in the body.
"Although the number of cases in this study is small, the findings reinforce the notion that changes in extrapulmonary organs are attributable to multiorgan dysfunction syndrome rather than a viral cytopathic effect, and that there is no transplacental transmission of virus."
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Show me a syringe ready product. My argument remains untrashed until that happy day arrives. There have been Flu Vaccine shortages in recent years.
In recent years anyone who wanted flu vaccine could get it, even if there were shortages in particular communities. You might have to hunt around a bit. I suspect that if there were surpluses of the vaccine you would moan that that was wasteful.
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I didn't say everyone with HIV is promiscuous, I said that no one will market a vaccine for HIV because of the fear (by the usual suspects) that it will promote promiscuity. That's why birth control pills continue to be regulated like Oxycontin. It's why Gardasil was beaten back into the bushes of breakthrough research. If it at all appears like a prouduct makes sex safer it will be hounded out of sight before the public can get wind of it.
What strange things to say. Really weird.
Birth control pills are not regulated like narcotics.
If there were no plans to market an HIV vaccine no one would be working on one.
Gardasil is alive and well, now available in a vaccine that protects against nine strains, instead of four. It has also been shown that vaccinating against HPV does not promote promiscuity.
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All the people I know taking high blood pressure medication still have high blood pressure. All the diabetics I know on insulin are still going blind, losing feet, kidneys... and last but not least... painkillers... I laugh... anything that actually works is kept at Fort Knox and most of that stuff is deadly in even the slightest overdose. No, Suzy, I know you set a really low bar for the expectations of humanity with respect to what the Allied Health Industries can do for us but I don't. I expect MUCH more than we've gotten especially as so much of it is nigh unaffordable by the average individual.
There is a poster here who has a wife who has been treated for type 1 diabetes for over 50 years. Perhaps he will pop in and join the discussion. Anyone with serious complications from diabetes is very often noncompliant with treatment. That is not medicine's fault.
Hypertension? Meds do not cure it, but they reduce the risk of kidney damage, stroke, and heart attack. Effective meds are cheap. Publix even has some that are free.
Pain medication? Have you ever had surgery? I have. Have you ever broken a bone? I have. Appreciated the pain meds after both. Used them until the pain got better and that was it.
Would you deny pain medication to someone with extensive burns?
Generally at least 90% of peds deaths are in the unvaccinated.
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.
If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
So does it give people a boost or not? Science says it does. It's not irrelevant.
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Not much longer. Life expectancy plateaued for most socio-economic groups a while back and it is going retr0grade for at least one socio-economic group in the U.S.
And the culprit appears to be lifestyle related, not due to any deficit in medical care.
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
How many children under 12 months exactly were there? In fact, a break-down of the total number of sick people by age and reason for vaccine exception should prove instructive. In the case of the California School System especially instructive. If Social Engineering does not fit the definition of what is being attempted there I don't know what the term means. Healthy, vaccinated children should have no fear of unvaccinated children and immunocompromised or otherwise unvaccinatable children should either take their chances, which are quite good. Or they should not be in a public school. Period. End of Story!
"The vast majority of patients (131) were either unvaccinated or didn't know their vaccination status, the MMWR report said. Of the 68 Americans in the unvaccinated group, 29 cited philosophical or religious objections, 27 couldn't be vaccinated because they were too young or had a medical contraindication, and 12 weren't vaccinated for other reasons."
Th ones who should not be in school are the healthy kids who can be vaccinated with near zero risk to themselves but are not.
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Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52
Who said freedom of religion? You must think you personally know who you are speaking to or something?
Perhaps you did not read your own link. The New York mandate was challenged for alleged freedom of religion reasons.
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I mean if you are going to quote me, you should really try to focus on what I say. The NYSNA was fighting the non-contractual mandate. Nurses have clearly written in their contracts what is required of them, so does any other healthcare worker upon getting hired right down to clericals and cleaning people. This was unprecedented, and unneeded.
Nurses have contacted ADVANCE claiming the new rule is a violation of their civil rights as U.S. citizens, since the state expects those who don't comply to be staffed only in areas where they wouldn't pose a health risk to patients should they contract the flu and be disciplined in a manner similar to someone who's unwilling to follow protocol - which some are led to believe means a fast track to termination.
"I am a registered nurse who is being told [by my facility, via letter] that I will be fired if I do not get a flu vaccine," said Marie-Dominique Toussaint, RN, a New York hospital nurse. "I have never gotten the flu. I have never taken a flu vaccine. I am relatively healthy and choose not to be vaccinated knowing I may or may not get the flu someday. It's a 'risk' I take and it's mine to take."
Apart from the fact that I would consider any nurse who refused flu vaccine for other than medical reasons to be poorly educated, I would not want to be in the hospital during flu season and be unnecessarily exposed to flu from an unvaccinated healthcare worker. Anyone who walks in my room wearing a mask because she chose not to take the vaccine will be asked to leave.
It may be the nurse's right not to take the vaccine. It just shows she's ignorant. It's not her right to refuse to do what she can to protect her patients and coworkers. She should be terminated.
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Our southern border is crossed by people from all over the world - not just people from Mexico.
This is from an article on the topic dated Aug 2014 -
• 1,443 people from China were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border so far this year, with an additional 1,803 people either turning themselves in to U.S. authorities at official ports of entry, or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.
• Twenty-eight individuals from Pakistan were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 211 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.
• Thirteen Egyptians were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 168 either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.
• Four individuals from Yemen were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014, with another 34 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.
• Four individuals from Somalia were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014. Another 290 either turned themselves in or were apprehended at official ports of entry.
Since it is not possible to know how many people crossing our border illegally escape detection, the above figures suggest that many more people from across the globe have crossed our southern border.
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I am far more likely to come in contact with an unvaccinated American than an unvaccinated illegal alien.
Keep trying. It's fun to see you stretching so far.
It's too bad that you didnt watch those preceeding though. Maybe you can explain why substances like mercury and formaldhyde are/were in them? I wouldnt think that is very healthy for anyone - compromised or not.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
The human body makes formaldehyde in higher quantities than are found in vaccines. There are also many environmental exposures, including air, food, and water. The amounts in vaccines are insignificant compared to that.
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.
If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
Yes, the incidence of influenza is estimated. However, the estimates are based on laboratory confirmed cases.
Acute bronchitis can be caused by either bacteria or viruses, and it is contagious.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,147,181 times
Reputation: 3814
Well, then we have redefined bronchitis since 2011. I guess parents will have to keep their coughing children who suffer from seasonal bronchitis (based on allergic reactions to mold mildew fungus pollen, etc) home from school now, and older folks need to stay home from work. They might infect somebody.
Mine comes out when trees are budding. Watch out world! The trees are fighting back!
I dont eat organic so I can put any amount of chemicals into my body. Likewise, I wear washable clothing only. I only use organic deodorants.
Is there a market out there offering organic vaccines? Thanks.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,147,181 times
Reputation: 3814
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.
And the culprit appears to be lifestyle related, not due to any deficit in medical care.
"The vast majority of patients (131) were either unvaccinated or didn't know their vaccination status, the MMWR report said. Of the 68 Americans in the unvaccinated group, 29 cited philosophical or religious objections, 27 couldn't be vaccinated because they were too young or had a medical contraindication, and 12 weren't vaccinated for other reasons."
Th ones who should not be in school are the healthy kids who can be vaccinated with near zero risk to themselves but are not.
Perhaps you did not read your own link. The New York mandate was challenged for alleged freedom of religion reasons.
Apart from the fact that I would consider any nurse who refused flu vaccine for other than medical reasons to be poorly educated, I would not want to be in the hospital during flu season and be unnecessarily exposed to flu from an unvaccinated healthcare worker. Anyone who walks in my room wearing a mask because she chose not to take the vaccine will be asked to leave.
It may be the nurse's right not to take the vaccine. It just shows she's ignorant. It's not her right to refuse to do what she can to protect her patients and coworkers. She should be terminated.
I am far more likely to come in contact with an unvaccinated American than an unvaccinated illegal alien.
Keep trying. It's fun to see you stretching so far.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
The human body makes formaldehyde in higher quantities than are found in vaccines. There are also many environmental exposures, including air, food, and water. The amounts in vaccines are insignificant compared to that.
Sulphur dioxide is a natural toxic gas found in the environment too. Which has nothing to do with vaccines, but I have to thank you SuzyQ. You are helping to make me more and more aware of how much we use toxic substances as preservatives.
Ive been on job sites out west with clearly posted skull and bones warnings regarding natural sulphur dioxide in the environment.
I worked for a radiologist for 10 years that I held in high regard professionally, as well as his demeanor as a human being. He once said something to me regarding radiation exposure that I will never forget.
Its true we know how much radiation is harmful. Its not true that we know how little.
Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 06-01-2015 at 08:07 PM..
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.
I've seen how the shingles rate is calculated and it could be a theme for a course on how to manipulate with statistics.
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.
If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
Many people go to the dr. with "influenza-like illness" and get tested for the flu. Some have it, some don't. Likewise, a lot of people bring their kids in for "strep throat" and the kids turn out to have the flu. Kaiser-Permanente keeps stats on ILI for the CO dept. of health.
Well, then we have redefined bronchitis since 2011. I guess parents will have to keep their coughing children who suffer from seasonal bronchitis (based on allergic reactions to mold mildew fungus pollen, etc) home from school now, and older folks need to stay home from work. They might infect somebody.
Mine comes out when trees are budding. Watch out world! The trees are fighting back!
I dont eat organic so I can put any amount of chemicals into my body. Likewise, I wear washable clothing only. I only use organic deodorants.
Is there a market out there offering organic vaccines? Thanks.
Not all bronchitis is due to infections. Any inflammation of the bronchi is called bronchitis. The term bronchitis when used in connection with discussions of infectious disease is indeed an infection and is indeed contagious. It has not been redefined. Perhaps you should consider reading a bit more.
Im not stretching - but you keep trying, its fun to watch you squirm, lol.
What was the point of the mercury then? It was there is 2009 - why? You need mercury and formaldehyde to kill the flu for a vaccine?
BTW, the US was ranked 37th in the world for healthcare too. Vaccines are a part of healthcare.
Mercury, as thimerosal, was used as a preservative to prevent bacterial contamination of vaccines. It was removed after the anti-vax folks got their panties in a wad over it. It was never dangerous, but it is now used in only a few vaccines. Any vaccine for children, including flu vaccine, is available without any mercury at all in it.
Repeat after me:
There is no mercury in children's vaccines.
Formaldehyde was discussed above. It might help if you read the links. I'll save you the effort of going back and finding it:
"Formaldehyde plays an essential role in our metabolism. As part of the metabolic process, formaldehyde, whether from an external source or produced by our bodies, is converted into formate by the enzyme formaldehyde dehydrogenase. The resulting formate can then be eliminated in the urine, further broken down into CO2 and exhaled, or used by our cell machinery to synthesize nucleotides and nucleobases, such as purines and thymidine."
"The first thing to make clear is that not every vaccine contains formaldehyde. In vaccine production, it is used to kill or inactivate the antigens being used. Because of its anti-microbial properties, it cannot be used in any of the "live" vaccines (e.g., MMR, rotavirus, varicella, and some flu vaccines), or else they would be rendered useless. Only inactivated vaccines use formaldehyde during the production process. Once the bacteria or viruses are inactivated, the formaldehyde is diluted out, leaving only minute amounts."
"Formaldehyde has a lot of scary connotations and images associated with it. It's very easy to let that fear lead us astray and blow things out of proportion. But when you step back and look at things, you realize that, where formaldehyde and vaccines are concerned, there really is nothing to be afraid of. The amount that is present is so small as to be only a negligible exposure, one that the body very quickly handles by either using it for normal cell functions or getting rid of it completely. The beginnings of adverse effects aren't even seen until exposed to many times the residual amounts present in vaccines. While reductions in the amount of environmental exposure are a good thing, the tiny amounts in vaccines are not a health concern."
When all the countries in the world use the same measurements of healthcare and have the same homogeneous populations then comparisons can be made. Otherwise it's problematic. For example countries with allegedly lower infant mortality just count fetuses born too soon to survive as stillbirths, even if they breathe and have a heartbeat. The US calls those live births. You cannot do comparisons when everyone does not follow the same rules, and infant mortality is one of the things used to compare countries.
In the list of "36 countries ranked ahead of the US" (which is old - 2000), many are tiny. San Marino, for example, has a population of 32,371. The county I live in has a population of 36,303. San Marino had one birth today, 117 this year. Our local hospital has more than that every month. You know, I suspect that comparing a country with a population of 32,371 to a country with a population of 325 million is just a bit ... ridiculous.
Of interest, 24 of the countries ranked ahead of the US in that list have higher vaccination rates for measles than the US, 3 have the same, and 7 lower. Wait! Could it be that immunization rates are factored into rankings of how good healthcare is in a country?
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