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Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,147,009 times
Reputation: 3814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram
The kids with Hep C and HIV cannot do anything about their conditions. Nor can kids who are unable to be vaccinated due to various medical problems. The issue is perfectly healthy kids whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated.
Here in Arizona, because they have a similar waiver system as in California, you have schools where less than 50% of the kids are vaccinated, well below the threshold of what is considered to be herd immunity. Schools like that are ripe for outbreaks of highly infectious diseases such as the measles among others. That is the problem that laws like this are trying to curb.
Im sorry - maybe I misunderstand, but is their any evidence that anyone with Hep C or HIV cannot be vaccinated? That's what Im getting from your post.
were you allergic to the thimerasol?? no one that I knew ever had a problem with it....
I have 3 brothers and sisters that were fine with the contacts.
It was so long ago that I don't recall the exact problem.
But the contacts always seemed to bother me right from the get go.
I was seeing an ophthalmologist on a regular basis. After my eyes cleared up (about a year) he gave me the ok to go back to contacts. Within 6 months I was back in the ER with a burning sensation in my eyes. One eye recovered immediately. The other..I had a patch over it for 6 months.
I remember they gave me this gooey stuff to put in my eyes..gooey like vaseline.
It was horrible.
That was the end of contact lenses for me forever.
Im sorry - maybe I misunderstand, but is their any evidence that anyone with Hep C or HIV cannot be vaccinated? That's what Im getting from your post.
Both people with HIV and Hep C can be vaccinated with some restrictions based on their individual circumstances but that is not what the poster I was responding to was asking.
Would that include anyone that comes to a school ?
Plenty of parent volunteers go in and out of school daily.
There's really a limit to everything that can be done, the idea isn't to eliminate every possible avenue of infection but to eliminate the most likely ones. Kids are far more likely to have constant contact with their classmates and teachers over the course of a year than any single volunteer or auxiliary personnel.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,147,009 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram
Both people with HIV and Hep C can be vaccinated with some restrictions based on their individual circumstances but that is not what the poster I was responding to was asking.
No, it was what this poster was asking. *points at self*
If the infirmed ARE vaccinated, as is recommended, what do they have to fear from people who have not been vaccinated?
How far do you people want to take this? Yes, there are bills now to mandate vaccinations for your children's teachers and lunch ladies. Lovely. I suppose you ask your neighbors if their kids, includin that they themselves are up to date on all recommended boosters, are vaccinated. Are they under the law obligated to even tell you? Do you demand that a plumber or electrician who enters your home show their vaccination papers too in order to protect your vaccinated children?
What a world government and the Big Pharms have created. Thankfully, I am old and won't live too see more of this.
Parents indeed are asking if people who will be in contact with their children are vaccinated. They want to know if their pediatrician sees unvaccinated kids and what the vaccination rates are at their children's schools. They are even organizing pro-vaccine playgroups.
There's really a limit to everything that can be done, the idea isn't to eliminate every possible avenue of infection but to eliminate the most likely ones. Kids are far more likely to have constant contact with their classmates and teachers over the course of a year than any single volunteer or auxiliary personnel.
All it takes is one person regardless of "constant contact".
Disney outbreak anyone ?
When my son was in school I did volunteer lunch duty 5 days a week.
No, it was what this poster was asking. *points at self*
If the infirmed ARE vaccinated, as is recommended, what do they have to fear from people who have not been vaccinated?
You are aware that there are those who CANNOT be vaccinated at all because of various medical conditions that prevent it, right. People with immune disorders, on immune modulating medication, people with various types of cancer. These diseases hit these folks harder and with a far higher degree of lethality than the general population.
Measles for example has over a 50% fatality rate in children with compromised immune systems.
This article was featured in Mother Jones, written by a Phoenix area pediatrician whose daughter who was undergoing chemotherapy came down with measles.
To the parent of the unvaccinated child who exposed my family to measles:
I have a number of strong feelings surging through my body right now. Towards my family, I am feeling extra protective like a papa bear. Towards you, unvaccinating parent, I feel anger and frustration at your choices.
By now we've all heard of the measles outbreak that originated in Disneyland. Or more accurately, originated from an unvaccinated person that infected other similarly minded vacationers. I won't get into a debate about the whole anti-vaccine movement, the thimerisol controversy (no longer even used in childhood vaccines), or the myth that MMR causes autism (there are changes in autistic brain chemistry prior to birth).
Let's talk measles for just a minute. It once was widespread in the US. It is now considered 'eliminated' in the US (not continually circulating in the population—only contracted through travel out of country). Measles is highly contagious (>90 percent infectious) and can survive airborne in a room and infect someone two hours later.
Another fun fact is that measles is transmittable before it can be diagnosed—four days before the characteristic rash appears. "Measles itself is unpleasant, but the complications are dangerous. Six to 20 percent of the people who get the disease will get an ear infection, diarrhea, or even pneumonia. One out of 1000 people with measles will develop inflammation of the brain, and about one out of 1000 will die." That sounds fun!
There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough.
I assume you love your child just like I love mine. I assume that you are trying to make good choices regarding their care. Please realize that your child does not live in a bubble. When your child gets sick, other children are exposed. My children. Why would you knowingly expose anyone to your sick, unvaccinated child after recently visiting Disneyland? That was a boneheaded move.
Why does this effect me and mine? Why is my family at risk if we are vaccinating? I'm glad you asked.
Regarding measles, there are four groups of people. All are represented in my family.
First, the MMR vaccine results in immunity for most who receive it. Two doses provides protection that can be confirmed with blood titers. My wife is in this group.
Second, about 3 percent of fully vaccinated children do not develop a lasting immune response. They have low blood titers and are not protected against measles. If exposed, this group will likely get the illness. I am in this group. I was thankfully not exposed.
Third, we have the unvaccinated. My son, Eli, is 10 months old. He is too young to received the MMR vaccine and thus has no protection. Whether by refusal or because they are too young, exposed unvaccinated children have a 90 percent chance of getting measles.
Fourth, there are children like my Maggie. These are children who can't be vaccinated. Children who have cancer. Children who are immunocompromised. Children who are truly allergic to a vaccine or part of a vaccine (i.e., anaphylaxis to egg). These children remain at risk. They cannot be protected, except by vaccinating people around them. Maggie, before and after being diagnosed with cancer
Maggie was diagnosed last August with ALL—acute lymphoblastic leukemia (blood cancer). She has had multiple rounds of chemotherapy, lumbar punctures, and surgery to implant her port. She has been admitted six times since diagnosis and spent over three weeks at Phoenix Children's Hospital (including Halloween and New Years). She had been immunized fully, but we are unable to immunize her further until after treatments end. Her treatment will prayerfully end shortly after her 5th birthday, in January 2017.
Here is how the measles outbreak has further complicated our situation.
It was a Wednesday. Maggie had just been discharged from Phoenix Children's Hospital after finishing her latest round of chemotherapy. That afternoon she went to the PCH East Valley Specialty Clinic for a lab draw. Everything went fine, and we were feeling good…until Sunday evening when we got the call.
On Wednesday afternoon, Anna, Maggie, and Eli had been exposed to measles by another patient. Our two kids lacked the immunity to defend against measles. The only protection available was multiple shots of rubeola immune globulin (measles antibodies). There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough.
Eli and Maggie were exposed to measles on January 21. Despite the treatment noted, they could start showing signs of measles any time from now through February 11 (21 days post exposure). After a new blood test, both my wife and I were found to be immune to measles, but the children will remain in isolation until February 11.
Instead of a break, we get to watch for measles symptoms and pray for no fevers (or back to the hospital we go). Thanks for making us cancel our trip to the snow this year. Maggie really wanted to see snow, but we will not risk exposing anyone else. On that note, thanks for exposing 195 children to an illness considered 'eliminated' from the US. Your poor choices don't just effect your child. They affect my family and many more like us.
All it takes is one person regardless of "constant contact".
Disney outbreak anyone ?
When my son was in school I did volunteer lunch duty 5 days a week.
All it takes is one person but that can apply to pretty much anything, if that was the main basis for public health would all live in a big plastic bubble. That isn't how epidemiology works.
If kids spend 95+% of their time in school with their classmates and teacher(s), those are the circumstances that you most want to control, the most likely and easiest opportunities for infection.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,147,009 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram
You are aware that there are those who CANNOT be vaccinated at all because of various medical conditions that prevent it, right. People with immune disorders, on immune modulating medication, people with various types of cancer. These diseases hit these folks harder and with a far higher degree of lethality than the general population.
Measles for example has over a 50% fatality rate in children with compromised immune systems.
This article was featured in Mother Jones, written by a Phoenix area pediatrician whose daughter who was undergoing chemotherapy came down with measles.
Yes, we are all aware - that is why people with compromised immune systems are a priority FOR vaccination.
I have yet to see a legitimate answer to the question however. Just photos of poor little kids fighting outrageous diseases. If the vaccines work, one would think those priority status people would be fine.
If they have to worry about ANY germ they may happen upon, then I refer you to the 1970s movie staring John Travolta - The boy in the Plastic Bubble. If the vaccines dont work - they still need that bubble.
And no - Im not suggesting every parent stick their kid in a bubble, nor am I suggesting that public schoold districts forego a vaccination requirement like I honestly thought they already did have. The requirement was there when I went to school, but I did not go to school in CA.
But really, if these people have faith in the vaccines themselves, and dont look for excuses themselves NOT to have their priority status child vaccinated, then how is their a problem if someone elses kid is not vaccinated?
Shouldnt the vaccine still protect them? And if it doesnt, what makes anyone think the same vaccine in someone else will do the trick?
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Maggie, before and after being diagnosed with cancer