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Well, which is it? Is Fischer making money or not?
Yeah, kind of like how you make money off of vaccines. You give vaccines because you believe in them as you are a nurse and you are paid for your work. I doubt that she intentionally had her child harmed by vaccines so that she could write some books and potentially make some cash. If anyone has info as to how much she makes it might be relevant since people are acting like it's a lot. I have no idea how much she makes. I actually didn't even know who she was until Suzy mentioned her name. Do you think she's happy that her son had a vaccine reaction that led to health issues so that she could write some books and maybe make some money? Do you think she intentionally harmed him because it fit her agenda to make money? I don't really understand where you all are going with this.
Speaking of homeschooling... What if all the unvaccinated kids were taken out of public school. Considering the huge reaction in Cali, I suppose it's a possibility. Could the school districts take that kind of financial hit?
Could this actually backfire on the public school system?
In most places homeschoolers pay taxes, not being in the school system means they don't have to educate them so it could be a really good thing from a cost perspective. I could be wrong about the funding model in California.
If all those homeschooled kids hang out together, the risk to each and every one of them contracting one of the diseases vaccines prevent increases. If you look at the outbreaks, they most often have affected pockets of unvaccinated kids.
I don't want any kid to get sick, but the anti-vax movement has only gained traction because the vast majority of moms with young kids have no idea what the diseases vaccines prevent were actually like - if groups of unvaccinated kids spend time together, their parents will find out and have no one to blame but themselves (as well as creating risk for a bunch of other folks whose kids have medical conditions preventing them from vaccinating or are too young).
Here's a quote from the author Roald Dahl about his daughter's death from measles at age 7 (before vaccines were available).
If you choose not to vaccinate your child and they contract any one of these preventable illnesses IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT.
Not Jenny McCarthy's, not the pharmaceutical industry. It will be the fault of the parent who could have saved their child from the type of death Roald Dahl's daughter had, and didn't.
"Pneumonia ( in 6% of reported cases) may be viral or superimposed bacterial, and is the most common cause of measles-related death."
"As with other complications of measles, the risk of death is highest among young children and adults. Pneumonia accounts for 60% of deaths."
"Measles in an immunocompromised person can be severe with a prolonged course. It is reported almost exclusively in persons with T-cell deficiencies (certain leukemias, lymphomas, and acquired immune deficiency syndrome [AIDS]). It may occur without the typical rash..."
The measles virus was no doubt found on post-mortem examination of her lung tissue (standard procedure in autopsies, and you can see the viral effects in the lung cells with just standard microscopy, although confirmation that the virus in question is measles requires additional testing). I wonder what this lady's underlying immune status was; we have a lot more immunocompromised people around today than we did in the 1950s when measles was still endemic in the US.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,146,559 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Thanks for the kind words. I think all the pro-vaxers are doing a great job here, staying patient when people accuse them of all sorts of things.
I don't think this thread should be closed. Vaccines is an ongoing issue. You can be sure the death of this woman from pneumonia secondary to measles announced yesterday will keep this issue in the news.
I cant agree. The Brittish term, "Big-headed" comes to mind when I read what they type.
You will never get everyone to agree with you, I am afraid - but you have a better shot than someone who you can picture looking down their nose as they type.
You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar. You attract intelligence when you can present facts in a personable way. That's the only way not to drive others even further underground.
Most of us dont like to be preached dwon to, no matter how well-educated or not that we are. In this country, being well-eduacted comes at a price; and, being beneath someone elses accomplishments, does not equal stupid.
Changing attitudes can be done with reason and respect. It will never happen otherwise.
Yes, Aredhel. That would include me. I have a rare autoimmune disease being treated with immunosuppressants. I am anxiously awaiting an angiogram right now that will confirm remission, at which point I will begin the long, slow process of being weaned off of these drugs. Transplant patients also receive immunomodulatory therapy to prevent rejection. There are indeed many of us around.
Katjonjj, there is nothing fishy about a medical examiner identifying Hecht's pneumonia during autopsy, knowing that it is a unique complication of measles infection in immunocompromised individuals, and connecting the dots. Her pneumonia was a complication of measles infection.
Yeah, kind of like how you make money off of vaccines. You give vaccines because you believe in them as you are a nurse and you are paid for your work. I doubt that she intentionally had her child harmed by vaccines so that she could write some books and potentially make some cash. If anyone has info as to how much she makes it might be relevant since people are acting like it's a lot. I have no idea how much she makes. I actually didn't even know who she was until Suzy mentioned her name. Do you think she's happy that her son had a vaccine reaction that led to health issues so that she could write some books and maybe make some money? Do you think she intentionally harmed him because it fit her agenda to make money? I don't really understand where you all are going with this.
I'm sorry her child got sick (and have seen NO evidence that it was caused by the vaccine, just that he got sick around the time he received a vaccine, one hundreds of thousands of kids have received with no health consequences), but to use that to profoundly increase the risk to other people's kids is irresponsible. Every single reputable study shows the risk of vaccines is less than the risk of the illnesses they prevent.
Nurses make money in support of the health care system, vaccines are an important part of that. No conspiracy, just strong public health policy.
Vaccinate your kid, save them from life threatening illnesses, do your part to protect society's most vulnerable and send your kid to school to connect with their peers. My hope is that other jurisdictions do the same.
Every piece of evidence points to the benefits being exponentially greater than any risk, and if you're not willing to do it, your child is lucky the government has mandates.
The woman that got the measles and died got them at the health care facility where she was being treated for something else. She had a compromised immune system. Since the measles vaccine is not 100%, she may have gotten the measles from someone that had been vaccinated. Really weak case here.
Also does anyone else wonder why this death took place in April and we are hearing about it now? Also, they say they could not release her age because that would compromise her identity so was there only one person in the city that was that age. Age does make a difference.
Also, keep in mind, that many people, especially those that watch healthy children turn into children with serious issues, do not believe that vaccines are safe. I do not believe they are safe. We even limit our dogs vaccinations so I would surely educate myself even further for the humans in my life.
The woman that got the measles and died got them at the health care facility where she was being treated for something else. She had a compromised immune system. Since the measles vaccine is not 100%, she may have gotten the measles from someone that had been vaccinated. Really weak case here.
Also does anyone else wonder why this death took place in April and we are hearing about it now? Also, they say they could not release her age because that would compromise her identity so was there only one person in the city that was that age. Age does make a difference.
Also, keep in mind, that many people, especially those that watch healthy children turn into children with serious issues, do not believe that vaccines are safe. I do not believe they are safe. We even limit our dogs vaccinations so I would surely educate myself even further for the humans in my life.
Well, here's one Im unfamiliar with. Do we really use live virus in the US?
I know many countries outside the US do - so in that instance a traveler may still be able to infect.
I know most Americans will not test positive on a standard Tbc test, while many who were vaccinated outside the US will because live virus was used to do the vaccination. Some of them, upon immigranting, have been forced to take xrays and do treatments as if they were in fact infected.
I guess this helps me understand the Quantifuron test a lot better. I love how everything is getting a genetic marker these days.
Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 07-03-2015 at 05:15 PM..
Reason: spelling
There is nothing fishy about a medical examiner identifying Hecht's pneumonia during autopsy, knowing that it is a unique complication of measles infection in immunocompromised individuals, and connecting the dots.
Okay, put aside your pro vs anti stuff and read the article using critical thinking. This is a recipe for inciting the masses:
Start article with these facts: "the first such death in the U.S. in 12 years and the first in the state in 25, health officials said Thursday."
Make sure it's not related to Disney: "The case wasn't related to a recent measles outbreak that started at Disneyland and triggered a national debate about vaccinations, according to the Washington State Department of Health. Officials said it was a different strain."
Then...
Throw in an unnamed woman who dies tragically from a disease yet remains unnamed and they don't want to reveal her age to "protect her identity" but "she had a compromised immune system." and is "not elderly." She was asymptomatic.
She "was hospitalized for several health conditions" so she was already sick with who knows what yet... "She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles, Moyer said. That's when the woman most likely was exposed."
And "An autopsy concluded the cause of death was pneumonia due to measles."
Then add "This tragic situation illustrates the importance of immunizing as many people as possible to provide a high level of community protection against measles"
And "This week, California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a hotly contested bill to impose one of the strictest school vaccination laws in the country."
Add this fact for no reason at all: "The last active case of measles in Washington was reported in late April."
Then explain away the inconsistencies with "It's possible to develop measles within three weeks of exposure. Since three weeks have passed since the last measles case, no one who had contact with the known cases is at risk, Moyer said."
The article smells propaganda. I'm not saying a woman didn't die but there is actually no evidence in the article that the woman is not fictitious. Where is this woman's family? Why aren't they giving their heartfelt pleas to "get vaccinated or you will end up dead too" ???
I'm not going to engage in a war over mandatory vaccines. I am coming at this as someone who, like the victim, takes powerful immunosuppressants. This story makes me extremely fearful, because I am extremely vulnerable to infection. I think about the potential for this every day of my life. Other people go about their daily lives without a thought to other people sneezing or coughing or wiping their runny noses with their bare hands and then handling the produce at the grocery store. I am not so fortunate, because fate and genetics gave me this crappy disease. It sucks. Big time.
This was the statement I was responding to earlier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
I find it hard to believe they would even think of testing for measles at autopsy if the woman was asymptomatic even if someone else came down with measles around her.
There is nothing hard to believe about a medical examiner finding a type of pneumonia unique to measles infection and connecting the dots. Whether or not she contracted the disease from the person implicated is impossible for me or you to know. That's the CDC's wheelhouse. They traced her movements and came to that conclusion.
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