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Oh, it's not about the vaccine, eh? A vaccine information sheet is to be given out with each vaccination. The physician provides vaccine information. The person giving the IZs provides information. You're not supposed to sign permission until you've had all your questions answered. It's the vaccine.
(Mine in rainbow colors!)
There are several causes of a cough in children that are not contagious... acid reflux, asthma, allergies...
You suppose that parents should be able to diagnose before taking their child to the doctor. As for the information they give you and questions they answer... try asking the doctor what is in the vaccine. They have no idea and it isn't listed on the form either.
For several years the politicians *****-footed around this non-vaxing issue. Finally the study came out and it couldn't be denied any longer.
I suppose you did not link to the Utah outbreak where 19 fully up to date vaccinated teens got whooping cough. I guess they all caught it from unvaccinated little kids with anti-vaxer parents. Unvaccinated kids giving diseases to vaccinated kids. Vaccine do not always work for some. Quite a number of not working in one place.
Oh, well, pointless to even be discussing this, especially with a health professional, since my children are now (thankfully) adults.
There are several causes of a cough in children that are not contagious... acid reflux, asthma, allergies...
You suppose that parents should be able to diagnose before taking their child to the doctor. As for the information they give you and questions they answer... try asking the doctor what is in the vaccine. They have no idea and it isn't listed on the form either.
I said most coughs. Until said cough is diagnosed, the responsible thing to do is not let the 5 year old near the baby. The five year old is mobile. The baby isn't. The five year old exposed the baby. That is what the disease investigation revealed. The child was unvaccinated. The disease investigation revealed that as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I suppose you did not link to the Utah outbreak where 19 fully up to date vaccinated teens got whooping cough. I guess they all caught it from unvaccinated little kids with anti-vaxer parents. Unvaccinated kids giving diseases to vaccinated kids. Vaccine do not always work for some. Quite a number of not working in one place.
Oh, well, pointless to even be discussing this, especially with a health professional, since my children are now (thankfully) adults.
Well, you linked to it and I linked to the same epidemic some time later. 90% of the people they tested did NOT have pertussis.
The more I follow this thread the more I agree with JerseyGirl415.
If it wasn't for the children caught in the anti-vax stupidity I agree with bundling all the "choice" folks together in an isolated area and letting nature run its course. All they'd need is one single pesky infected person and I expect the one in a million odds of risk of vaccine would seem like a "gamble" they regret not taking.
Katarina, your patience in correcting knowing falsehoods perpetuated for the anti-vax agenda is appreciated.
The more I follow this thread the more I agree with JerseyGirl415.
If it wasn't for the children caught in the anti-vax stupidity I agree with bundling all the "choice" folks together in an isolated area and letting nature run its course. All they'd need is one single pesky infected person and I expect the one in a million odds of risk of vaccine would seem like a "gamble" they regret not taking.
Katarina, your patience in correcting knowing falsehoods perpetuated for the anti-vax agenda is appreciated.
Thank you! Repped you already earlier, otherwise I would do so again!
I said most coughs. Until said cough is diagnosed, the responsible thing to do is not let the 5 year old near the baby. The five year old is mobile. The baby isn't. The five year old exposed the baby. That is what the disease investigation revealed. The child was unvaccinated. The disease investigation revealed that as well.
Well, you linked to it and I linked to the same epidemic some time later. 90% of the people they tested did NOT have pertussis.
You said "most coughs" then you say 90%, of what I am assuming were coughing people, didn't have pertussis.
Are you saying that you would sit in a waiting room holding your baby and not cover them up if a coughing 5 year old is running around? There are precautions that each party needs to take to protect their kids. The burden is not solely on the 5 year old as you seem to think.
You said "most coughs" then you say 90%, of what I am assuming were coughing people, didn't have pertussis.
Are you saying that you would sit in a waiting room holding your baby and not cover them up if a coughing 5 year old is running around? There are precautions that each party needs to take to protect their kids. The burden is not solely on the 5 year old as you seem to think.
You are conflating two different stories. The 90% is from a pertussis outbreak in Park City, Utah. Nowhere did I ever imply that 90% of coughing people in general have any specific diagnosis.
The burden is on the parents of the five year old, primarily. I mean, yeah, the parent(s) of the baby could move, but a mobile five year old who wants to look at the baby could just move, too, especially since his/her parents were oblivious. The baby's parent could complain to the front desk staff, but anything the parents did short of leaving the office could still result in the baby being exposed.
People who bring their kids to an office sick and let the sick child cough all over a newborn are morons. If there is no sick and well side, you can sit far away from the baby.
What makes you think that the parents were "letting their child cough all over the baby"? If they were in the same room then it's very possible that the baby was exposed from across the room.
You said "most coughs" then you say 90%, of what I am assuming were coughing people, didn't have pertussis.
Are you saying that you would sit in a waiting room holding your baby and not cover them up if a coughing 5 year old is running around? There are precautions that each party needs to take to protect their kids. The burden is not solely on the 5 year old as you seem to think.
Are you trying to be obstinate or do you actually have a point?
Every parent of a sick kid tries to take care of their kids after they get sick.
It's how the anti science/ anti-vax parents treat their kids BEFORE they're sick that I judge.
Anti-vax parents care way more about their own ego and being smarter than doctors with their "mommy (and daddy) sense" trumping unequivocal medical benefits.
You like to "major in the minors" pointing out little distractions to avoid the changing trend (both at law and in logic) in favor of robust public health through increased vaccination.
The inability of people to act rationally (in the face of extensive research and science) is what makes legislation like California's necessary. You can play this shell game of shifting arguments but at the end of the day protecting schoolchildren is an excellent decision - not perfect, but still an excellent step.
The old vaccine wore off as well. "Natural" immunity wears off as well. All (DTaP, DTwP and natural immunity) wear off in about the same time frame. The Tdap was a vaccine introduced to continue pertussis immunity. Regular DTP vaccine (either type) can't be used on people over 7. Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination. - PubMed - NCBI "A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years."
For several years the politicians tippy-toed around this non-vaxing issue. Finally the study came out and it couldn't be denied any longer.
I also shared the studies about the mutations in this thread. Everyone ignored them except for Suzy who said that the mutations made the vaccine less effective rather then ineffective (my use of the word). The mutation concerns are real and well documented.
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