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The report said the lot was contaminated... and we were instructed to return it if not already destroyed.
Mom's aunt had polio as a child and could never walk... she was a favorite of ours because she always had time for us kids and loved talking with us... always remember her having a radio all the time... she was always informed.
My best friend in grade school went up for a rebound at basketball practice and hit heads with another friend of mine... he did not feel well and it was the end of practice... he died that night in bed at 9 years old...
My uncle died in the line of duty as a Deputy Sheriff...
I have said many times that I am not for banning vaccinations... I do think heavy handed edicts are becoming the easy way way out instead of education and public awareness campaigns...
Without informed consent... there can be no consent.
Too many people I see don't have the slightest clue other than the Doctor or Nurse "Said" and this is very troubling...
Even at my own place of employment I was summoned to the break room and told to roll up my sleeve... and I dared question why... the charge nurse didn't even have the handout available for me to read... and this is in a hospital...
I was told I was the first to ask and then the only question I asked after... about the preservative used drew a blank stare...
I don't drink, smoke or have any prescription meds... I'm careful what I eat... so why shouldn't I want to know what someone wants to inject into my body?
I am the same as you, I don't oppose vaccines, I oppose mandates of vaccines and threats of job loss or public and private schooling if you don't comply. They can try to say we are anti vax ignorant fools all they want but that doesn't make it true.
It also doesn't qualify as a title for the people who are against vaccinations. Their reasons vary greatly.
It does make me question why they have to resort to the label though.
Plenty of people who voluntarily vaccinate are against mandates on a government schedule like we live in a policed state. It's just pitting one side against another, and I'm sick to death of being asked which side I'm on, provax or antivax. Most of us are on neither, we are on the anti mandate side. Education does the job, and transparency would be a great improvement.
People find it fishy that their are 30,000 or more cases reported to VAERS each year but no expert scientist can find a link to even one awarded case of injury. We will pay you but this does not mean we think the vaccine is responsible. Come on, really?
Some of us think, wow, clever, that way you don't have to list any new side effects. Great for business, not so great for consumers. And now, not so great for those victims of mandates.
Taking the consumer aspect out of capitalism relating to drug companies is a really underhanded way of tilting the tables. There is no balance there, and that raises questions that can't be answered with "it's just the best thing to do for disease control." This is my objection any way. I find it odd, and want more answers.
Well... if the pharmaceuticals have so little influence why were laws enacted that prevent providing doctors and their staff from everything from pens, meals and flying off to some far off resort, all expenses paid...
Hey, I benefited from the old ways... 4 out of 5 days each week I wouldn't have to concern myself with going out to lunch... it was catered and for free just for signing in on the Reps attendance roll...
Sorry to hear you have such little faith in education... then again... this is a California issue.
Its not about having faith in education, its about recognising when something is completely not working. How low would vaccination levels have to go in some areas before you agreed that some folks are just obtuse and will never act rationally on their own? 30%? 20%? 15%?
In some areas out here, its not unusual for schools to have less than 40% vaccination rates. The same thing applies to California, schools with 60%, 50%, 40%...etc. It'd be one thing if these folks were more spread out but instead the anti-vaxxers seem to love to cluster which makes the situation even worse, all you're doing is opening up the house doors, rolling out the red carpet and inviting these diseases to come on down.
The public health concerns of the majority outweigh those of a vocal but relatively small minority.
Low vaccination rates are likely responsible for the large measles outbreak that began at Disneyland in California last December, a new analysis suggests.
The researchers estimated that the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccination rate among the people who were exposed to measles in that outbreak may be as low as 50 percent, and is likely no higher than 86 percent. Since the beginning of this year, 127 cases of measles in the United Stateshave been linked to the Disneyland outbreak, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
"While researchers have certainly speculated that low vaccine rates might be to blame for the 2015 Disneyland measles outbreak, our study confirms this suspicion in a scientifically rigorous way," said study author Maimuna Majumder, a research fellow at Boston Children's Hospital. Because measles is such a highly contagious virus, vaccination rates of 96 percent to 99 percent are necessary to prevent outbreaks, Majumder said.
I guess time will tell and short of time... there is no way of know until after the fact.
So which are you arguing aren't necessary, should kids forgo a meningitis vaccinne, rotavirus, tetanus....etc.....or do you believe that none of them are necessary?
I can check with infection control to see if more information will be provided... since I was not one of those affected... privacy rules come into play... right or wrong.
If no amount of education is going to work... we sure could save a lot of money in this state by doing away with it...
When the polio vaccination came out... my great aunt said there were shortages... everyone wanted it... at least those in their community... but, back then... the doctor made house calls too!
There are many that aren't public, on a smaller scale. Storage problems occur more than we think I've heard. They have tried giving new warnings, hopefully it works.
[quote=Juram;40430992][quote=stevek64;40430921]I'm just hinging on the fact that you say 2 different things.....
Side 1.) unvaccinated CA kids, bad....effects others, especially the vulnerable who can't get vaccinated. CA law great as it gets vaccine rates up.
[quote]
Side 2.) Unvaccinated kids/adults from other countries flying spending time amongst us, causing documented outbreaks like at Disneyland,
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The main issue that you have been trying to dance around is that the vast majority of these outbreaks have been caused by unvaccinated individuals, affecting other unvaccinated individuals, including those who can't be vaccinated. The Disneyland outbreak wouldn't have been an outbreak if not for a multitude of unvaccinated locals to spread the disease into hospitals and medical clinics.
The simplest solution, get those who are healthy, to be vaccinated, cut off the transmission of disease and then it doesn't matter what is going on in the rest of the world. Now if you're arguing that people should provide proof of vaccination when coming into this country, you have no argument from me on that, but in a public health sense, its not as big of a priority as having enclaves where less than 50% of the kids are vaccinated.
Its all about priorities, if people here are vaccinated, the disease has no room to spread and there won't be an opportunity for an infection. Its easier to ensure that school age kids are vaccinated then having a largely unvaccinated population that is at the mercy of an individual coming from another state, or any number of other areas. You will never get 100% coverage but the average person who is immuno-compromised or other special population is at more risk of domestic infection than anything else.
Prevention is worth a pound of cure, preventing these diseases by getting as many healthy people vaccinated as possible.
Ahhh, the answer to my question.....thanks! You are consistent at least and I respect that. Sometimes people have a view that isn't consistent.
In any case, as I have previously stated, I'm not for any kind of mandate/law for vaccines for several reasons. It has nothing to do with pro/con vaccine, just me getting a little concerned that gov is overreaching a bit too much in our lives. I saw your comment to Ultrarunner on educating oneself and I'm one who believes strongly in educating oneself and making the decision we feel is right for each one of us. Beyond vaccines, there is NO decision you or I make that can't be guaranteed to not cause some issue to someone else. Many people go to work or in public spaces with the flu. Imagine how many people have gotten seriously sick or died as a result? We can't control everything people do nor should we. Just educate, outline this possibly could happen, and let the chips fall. If someone wants to believe that a vaccine is going to turn them 5 shades of orange on odd months and blue on even months, I may disagree, but it's their choice to not want to get it for this reason. The data is out there for them to decide and what data they want to latch onto. We can't/shouldn't control them, any more than we should again want to impound people in their homes when they have the flu as to not get others sick or cause death to the many people out there who are immune deficient, elderly, etc. Nothing is 100%. Freedom of choice is something that I feel is paramount in our society, even with the rough edges that come with any decision any of us make in life.
So where does the risk/benefit assessment come into play?
My military friends are loaded up with all kinds of vaccines dependant on where they are deployed...
If one vaccine is good... 10 would be better and 100 would be that much better...
My guess would be these diseases. http://kff.org/global-health-policy/...response/There will definitely be more to come. Hopefully the trials for them are longer than the one for Viox. Given Merck's rep for rushing trials.
The vast medical establishment understanding what is best when it comes to medical science compared to Jenny McCarthy, Jim Carrey, a discredited former doctor who manipulated research while taking money from a law firm intending to sue vaccine manufacturers and a few outliers profiting off of scaring people senseless about vaccines. I'm not sure which way to go.............
Non-sequitur back to you on that one....what do any of these people have to do with what I believe/not believe? Answer, nothing. To be honest with you, I've just learned who Jenny McCarthy was not too long ago. I don't care about nor follow people like that.
So we are back to freedom of choice/belief. But on the topic since you brought it up....if you believe all the medical science out there is free of money influence and valid, well, more power to you. Like political contributions, I'm sure it means nothing. Everything is done in the best interest of the people of course. To think otherwise is terribly naive.
I am the same as you, I don't oppose vaccines, I oppose mandates of vaccines and threats of job loss or public and private schooling if you don't comply. They can try to say we are anti vax ignorant fools all they want but that doesn't make it true.
If you do not oppose vaccines, why do you continue to bad mouth them?
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Plenty of people who voluntarily vaccinate are against mandates on a government schedule like we live in a policed state. It's just pitting one side against another, and I'm sick to death of being asked which side I'm on, provax or antivax. Most of us are on neither, we are on the anti mandate side. Education does the job, and transparency would be a great improvement.
Education did not do the job. Vaccination rates are too low in some areas, and we have seen large outbreaks of measles in the last few years. If education was working, that would not happen. By discouraging people from vaccinating, you are part of the problem.
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People find it fishy that their are 30,000 or more cases reported to VAERS each year but no expert scientist can find a link to even one awarded case of injury. We will pay you but this does not mean we think the vaccine is responsible. Come on, really?
It seems you think that repeating this over and over will magically make it true.
1. Not all VAERS reports represent injuries due to vaccines. Only a small percentage are. They are investigated and decisions about causality are made. The goal is to identify patterns of similar problems that suggest the problem is caused by the vaccine. If there are 30,000 reports of different problems, none of those may be due to the vaccine. On the other hand, ten reports of the same problem may be significant. We now know vaccines do not cause autism. Anyone reporting autism to VAERS is doing so because of the manufactured controversy, and other research has excluded vaccines as a cause of autism. No decisions about awards are made by VAERS investigators. Claims for awards are not processed through VAERS.
2. Claims for compensation for injuries are made to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. That is a no fault system. Causation is assumed for specific complications known to be caused by vaccines when they happen within a time frame that the vaccine is known to cause them.
VAERS and the compensation program are totally separate. The fact that you do not know that demonstrates ignorance that invalidates anything you say about either of them.
"... their[sic] are 30,000 or more cases reported to VAERS each year but no expert scientist can find a link to even one awarded case of injury" is a lie, and I can only conclude you are bent on trying to mislead people. That places you squarely in the anti-vax camp.
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Some of us think, wow, clever, that way you don't have to list any new side effects. Great for business, not so great for consumers. And now, not so great for those victims of mandates.
Serious adverse effects of vaccines are rare. "Side effects" are not. "Side effects" are things like a sore arm or mild fever.
New vaccines are added to the list for compensation at the compensation program.
Intussuception has been added to the table as a compensable complication of rotavirus vaccine:
Anyone who decides to vaccinate due to mandates has to be willing to accept the (tiny) risks of vaccinating.
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Taking the consumer aspect out of capitalism relating to drug companies is a really underhanded way of tilting the tables. There is no balance there, and that raises questions that can't be answered with "it's just the best thing to do for disease control." This is my objection any way. I find it odd, and want more answers.
This statement makes no sense at all. Are you saying consumers should vote on whether we have vaccines or not?
Vaccines work. Too many people have bought the pseudoscience about them and are not vaccinating. Education efforts are fruitless because moms with music degrees think they know more about vaccines than pediatricians. That's why we now have a new law in California that says the only exemptions from vaccination to attend school will be for valid medical reasons.
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Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
It is not imaginary that there has been a piling on of vaccines... even in recent history.
I guess time will tell and short of time... there is no way of know until after the fact.
You miscounted. there were nine vaccines in 1995. DPT and MMR are six vaccines, not two.
Why is protection against more diseases bad? I really have a hard time figuring that one out.
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Originally Posted by PoppySead
The flu shots are yearly so more negative accidents happen. Even if the vaccines were perfect, people who handle them are not. The more we pump out the more issues will arise. Contaminated, stored wrong, given wrong, etc.
There are many that aren't public, on a smaller scale. Storage problems occur more than we think I've heard. They have tried giving new warnings, hopefully it works.
Despite all that, vaccines managed to eradicate smallpox and we are near eradication of polio.
Millions of doses of vaccines are given that are not contaminated and not stored improperly.
Except in areas where people are not using vaccines, we are not having large outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases.
Sounds like somebody is doing something right to me.
By the way, flu vaccine is hard because it has to be made under a very short time deadline. The anti-vax contingent really likes to pick on flu vaccine because it is less effective than some of the others.
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