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Old 07-19-2015, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,969 posts, read 40,910,095 times
Reputation: 44897

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
However, according to the CDC..."Cervical cancer: More than 11,000 women in the United States get cervical cancer each year."
11,000 out of 319 million? Yet the CDC also says that 79 million people have HPV at any given time. The CDC says: "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives." STD Facts - Human papillomavirus (HPV)

However, there are around 100 or 150 types of HPV (depending on the source)... but the vaccine protects against 2 to 4 types (supposedly those which cause cancer).

From the insert: "Not all vulvar, vaginal, and anal cancers are caused by HPV, and GARDASIL protects only against those vulvar, vaginal, and anal cancers caused by HPV 16 and 18. (1.3)"

"Vaccination with GARDASIL may not result in protection in all vaccine recipients. (1.3)"
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM111263.pdf

So let's inject this in every girl and boy when only 11,000 get hpv related cancers... That makes perfect sense. And yet we are (flu) guessing at which strain causes cancer. Out of 150 (or 100 if you choose your source) the vaccine is against just 2 (or 4 depending on the manufacturer)?

Gardasil contains The ingredients are proteins of HPV Types 6, 11, 16, and 18, amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, yeast protein, sodium chloride, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, and water for injection.

Borax? Is that safe?
Cervical cancer is not the only HPV associated cancer.

CDC - How Many Cancers Are Linked with HPV Each Year?

In addition to 10400 cervical cancers, there are about 4000 anal cancers, 9000 cancers of the oropharynx, 700 penile cancers, 600 vaginal cancers, and 2200 vulvar cancers attributable to HPV in the US each year, for atotal of 26900. Even if those are not fatal, the treatment can be difficult, painful, and sometimes disfiguring due to radical surgery and radiation therapy. Treatment for cervical cancer usually renders a woman infertile.

Your information is out of date.

The newer version of Gardasil, Gardasil 9, protects against nine HPV strains, not four, and those strains are associated with 90% of cervical, vulvar, vaginal and anal cancers.

There is no "guessing" about which strains caused a cancer, and there is no "supposedly" about it. With modern genetic techniques the presence of virus in a tumor can be determined.

HPV vaccines are highly effective against the included strains:

FDA approves Gardasil 9 for prevention of certain cancers caused by five additional types of HPV

"Gardasil 9 was determined to be 97 percent effective in preventing cervical, vulvar and vaginal cancers caused by the five additional HPV types (31, 33, 45, 52, and 58). In addition, Gardasil 9 is as effective as Gardasil for the prevention of diseases caused by the four shared HPV types (6, 11, 16, and 18) based on similar antibody responses in participants in clinical studies."

It does not protect everyone; no vaccine is 100% effective, but 97% is getting pretty darn close.

In addition to preventing cancers, the vaccine prevents precancerous conditions which may also require painful treatment, including cervical biopsies that can impair fertility. Potentially 200,000 such procedures could be prevented annually.

Finally, there are simple warts, which may go away without treatment but do not always do so. Genital warts are uncomfortable and can be embarrassing. Treatment can take time and is painful; topical treatments are caustic. Warts tend to grow during pregnancy and can be traumatized during delivery. It is possible for newborns to be infected with the virus at birth.

HPV vaccines can potentially prevent hundreds of thousands of cases of genital warts each year.

Genital Warts

Focusing only on cervical cancer is ... myopic.

Sodium borate? The sodium chloride (that's the same as table salt) is more "toxic":

https://scepticon.wordpress.com/2011...so-bad-really/

"Another potentially scary sounding chemical in vaccines is sodium borate, the approximate dose per injection of vaccine is 35 μg. This is used to balance the pH. The LD50 (a measure of toxicity) for this compound is 2-3 g/kg in mammals and as such is actually slightly less toxic than table salt (~3 g/kg), the 35 μg in the vaccine if given to a 50 kg individual equals a 0.7 μg/kg dose, this isn’t even close to a dose high enough to cause even a minor problem."

Let's see what Crunchy Betty has to say about borax:

Getting to the Bottom of Borax: Is it Safe or Not? | Crunchy Betty

"Borax is acutely toxic in the same manner that salt is (in rats, it’s 4500-5000 mg/kg of body weight, which is A LOT). Ingested in moderate quantities, it causes gastrointestinal upset and nausea. Bottom line: While it may be listed as “poison” on the box, it’s only toxic at very, very high levels. (Like salt, baking soda, and even water is.)"

"Boron is an essential mineral that the body needs for bone building, immune function, and brain function. Plants need it to grow. But, like anything, it’s needed in small moderation. Much like salt."

 
Old 07-19-2015, 10:41 AM
 
13,513 posts, read 19,191,561 times
Reputation: 16577
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
AGAINST....I'm against it because if it's not going to be mandated for EVERYONE, not just the most vulnerable...infants and children who have no choice or say in the matter, then it's pure discrimination...and think how daaaangerous and infectious all us ADULTS ARE.
How many people/adults who are for mandatory vaccination have received ALL vaccines on the CDC recommended schedule for themselves?...very few I'd say.
What's the use of vaccinating all our children so they can be one of the "herd", if the parents and grandparents left that herd decades ago. Vaccines don't last decades...
 
Old 07-19-2015, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,316 posts, read 739,009 times
Reputation: 2823
Fundamental misunderstanding of things like "toxins" and "poison" is really telling. So is the difference between saying something "may be" or "definitely is." But those nuanced interpretations seem to mean nothing when an anti-vaxxer tries to argue that aluminum, mercury, etc. are killing us all. And those pesky differences in chemical compounds--who has the time to learn the difference? If one is bad, they all must be, right?
 
Old 07-19-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,316 posts, read 739,009 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
AGAINST....I'm against it because if it's not going to be mandated for EVERYONE, not just the most vulnerable...infants and children who have no choice or say in the matter, then it's pure discrimination...and think how daaaangerous and infectious all us ADULTS ARE.
How many people/adults who are for mandatory vaccination have received ALL vaccines on the CDC recommended schedule for themselves?...very few I'd say.
What's the use of vaccinating all our children so they can be one of the "herd", if the parents and grandparents left that herd decades ago. Vaccines don't last decades...
So if it was for EVERYONE, you'd be for it?
 
Old 07-19-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,969 posts, read 40,910,095 times
Reputation: 44897
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
AGAINST....I'm against it because if it's not going to be mandated for EVERYONE, not just the most vulnerable...infants and children who have no choice or say in the matter, then it's pure discrimination...and think how daaaangerous and infectious all us ADULTS ARE.
How many people/adults who are for mandatory vaccination have received ALL vaccines on the CDC recommended schedule for themselves?...very few I'd say.
What's the use of vaccinating all our children so they can be one of the "herd", if the parents and grandparents left that herd decades ago. Vaccines don't last decades...
The majority of vaccines last for decades, including those against measles, rubella, and hepatitis B. The HPV vaccines are turning out to be long lasting. Most vaccinations do not need boosters. Adults need them for tetanus and diphtheria every ten years and pertussis once. Whether to be vaccinated against pneumococcal disease and shingles is up to the individual. One thing the Disney measles outbreak did was alert adults to update their vaccines. My gynecologist tells me that her OB patients and their families are taking the Tdap.

People refuse the flu vaccine because they believe all the ant-vax nonsense about it, especially the theory that if a vaccine is not 100% effective it is useless and the myth that the vaccine causes flu. They are afraid of Guillain Barre syndrome, even though they are more likley to get GBS from the flu itself than from flu vaccine and the vast majority of cases of GBS are due to infections, particularly Camplylobacter infections, rather than vaccines.

Do more adults need to be vaccinated? Yes, but most adults are immune to the things on the schedule for children.

In answer to your question, I am fully vaccinated, as are my children and granddaughters (for their ages.)
 
Old 07-19-2015, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,179,658 times
Reputation: 35920
Just came across this The constitutionality of mandatory vaccinations article about constitutionality.
 
Old 07-19-2015, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,068 posts, read 6,419,172 times
Reputation: 7729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Just came across this The constitutionality of mandatory vaccinations article about constitutionality.
He/she has a right to their opinion.

About the Skeptical Raptor


"About the Skeptical Raptor

The Skeptical Raptor
I have over 25 years experience in marketing, business development, and product development in the medical products industry, working in a variety of marketing, sales, clinical research, and product development roles with large and small medical products companies. I have also had key executive roles on both the manufacturing and distribution sides of the medical products industry."





Signed,


Skeptical Steve
 
Old 07-19-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,969 posts, read 40,910,095 times
Reputation: 44897
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
He/she has a right to their opinion.

About the Skeptical Raptor


"About the Skeptical Raptor

The Skeptical Raptor
I have over 25 years experience in marketing, business development, and product development in the medical products industry, working in a variety of marketing, sales, clinical research, and product development roles with large and small medical products companies. I have also had key executive roles on both the manufacturing and distribution sides of the medical products industry."
Cherry picked your quote, didn't you?

If you keep reading your link:

"I have an undergraduate degree in Biology from a top US research university, and a graduate degree in Biochemistry/Endocrinology from a major US research university. I did my post-graduate work in a multi-national pharmaceutical company."

"My areas of expertise are in medicine and science, so I’ll probably stick with discussing those topics. But if I see anything about sasquatch, I might have comment just because I can. I will also comment about sports, rarely, especially if I read about the sport and pseudoscience."

And your credentials?
 
Old 07-19-2015, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,179,658 times
Reputation: 35920
'Let me add to suzy_q2010's post about adult vaccination.

Diphtheria toxoid (the vaccine's official name) became available in 1923. Tetanus toxoid and pertussis vaccine both came out in 1938. TD for kids came out in 1947 and FTP in 1949. As you can see by the dates, these vaccines have been around a long time. Someone born in 1923 is now 92 years old. Tetanus was used extensively on military personnel in WW II. These people were born from about 1910 to 1925.

Pretty much anyone who is alive today has had at least some polio vaccine. My father would be 101 if still alive, and he took the sugar cubes along with everyone else on the "Sabin Sundays."

People born in 1956 or earlier are considered immune to measles and mumps. The first live measles vaccine came out in 1963. Anyone who had not yet had measles could be immunized. A killed measles vaccine was also in use from 1963-1967. Anyone who received it or measles vaccine of unknown type during those years should be re-immunized with the current vaccine. Anyone immunized with measles vaccine since 1968 does not need to be re-immunized. Live mumps vaccine came out in 1967 and rubella in 1969. Women get tested for rubella in pregnancy and offered the vaccine after delivery if not immune. Almost everyone got chickenpox before the vaccine came out in 1995, probably virtually everyone born in 1980 or before and many born right up to 1995.

Most adults are current on everything except perhaps Tdap.
 
Old 07-19-2015, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,179,658 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
He/she has a right to their opinion.

About the Skeptical Raptor


"About the Skeptical Raptor

The Skeptical Raptor
I have over 25 years experience in marketing, business development, and product development in the medical products industry, working in a variety of marketing, sales, clinical research, and product development roles with large and small medical products companies. I have also had key executive roles on both the manufacturing and distribution sides of the medical products industry."





Signed,


Skeptical Steve
Dorit Reiss, who wrote the article Skeptical Raptor discusses within his article is a LAW professor at the U of CA. Didn't read it, did you?
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