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In my case, with both pregnancies, a resounding YES. In fact, I remember clearly waiting in a line in 2003, when there was an initial shortage of the flu vaccine, with dozens of other pregnant women. We were all voluntarily doing so to keep ourselves, and our babies, healthy. Not all of us are head-in-the-sand denial junkies. My husband has always been up to date on his vaccinations and gets a flu shot annually. Interestingly, even though the shot was a poor match this past year, I am the only one in my office who got one, and the only one that didn't miss time due to...the flu. Anecdotal, I know. But it was nice not to be sick. Healthy, with a bit of smug satisfaction.
What you fail to put into the equation is everyone but yourself. You couch this as a "choice" issue, but clearly speak about yourself and how it impacts you. I would like you to understand that I am not just concerned with myself and my immediate circle. I am concerned for my community, both local and global. As vaccination levels drop, more people WILL get sick, some seriously. This is entirely preventable! And a measles outbreak may have absolutely no impact on me personally--but I care a great deal about the impact it has on others. I don't live in a bubble.
And I wish some of you would stop talking about this as though I am a germaphobe, terrified of every sneeze and cough. I am not terrified of anything but preventable loss being undermined by willful ignorance. It breaks my heart to hear people talking about how "safe" these illnesses are and how they're "no big deal." Please understand that for those it impacts seriously, it is a big deal. An enormous deal. If nothing else, please acknowledge that these "choices" will impact others in a negative way.
One more word on the whole HPV thing. It is entirely possible to get your pap smears religiously and end up with cancer. I NEVER skipped mine, and I had a time-bomb on my cervix. I had very alarming dysplasia that my doctor explained was literally on the threshold of becoming cancer--he said at that point it was almost a matter of interpretation. So, no, I didn't technically have cancer--but I had a lot of the same treatment and protocols to follow, which took a lot of time and took a toll on my psyche. Plus, it was expensive--to me & my insurer. So, it IS misleading to say pap smears are "preventing" cancer. They are nothing more than an alert--whether it's a red alert or a yellow alert is all that's possible. So preventing the virus that causes most cervical cancer and pre-cancer, plus all of the other cancers it can prevent--that's so important.
And reactions to vaccines--please look at the big picture. If you talk about raw VAERS data, you're missing most of the picture. First of all, it's SELF-REPORTING, which means anything I personally feel is caused by the vaccination, I can report. Does anyone believe EVERYTHING is actually caused by the vaccine? And I don't mean that people are lying--I think a lot, if not most, of the people reporting believe what they are saying. But that doesn't make it TRUE. For example--I get migraines; if I get a vaccination, then experience the worst migraine I've ever had, is it from the vaccine? I may report it, but that does not mean the vaccine CAUSED it. I remember when the Gardasil scare happened, I read through dozens of reports and looked on websites for any information I could find. Some of the stories were so sad--desperate. There was one in particular where the parents denied their daughter took BCP, but it turned out she did AND smoked. They didn't want to believe any of that. She was high risk genetically as well. Still, the mother blamed the Gardasil--she BELIEVED it. Denied her daughter took BCP or smoked and said she'd "continue fighting." Gardasil didn't cause that young woman's death. It's no less tragic. But there are all sorts of things that young people do--they don't eat, drink an energy drink, then pass out getting a shot. That doesn't mean the vaccine CAUSED it. Listen, if something happens to my children, I want there to be someone to blame. It's human nature to need a scapegoat. But that doesn't make all those stories true. You have to look at other risk factors. You have to look at overall rates of death. You have to look beyond what you believe for actual facts to support it--then you must be willing to give it up if the facts (not the opinions or feelings or beliefs) don't support it.
Tomorrow, if a definitive, scientific report came out suggesting a real link between flu shots and death, I would look very closely at it to see if I needed to modify my behavior. But I WILL wait for factual, reliable, responsible information. My gut tells me I'll wait a really long time.
I think you are too wrapped up in fear. I and several of my friends have had LEEP procedures done and while not comfortable they were not similar to cancer treatment by any stretch. Abnormal cells happen. Still a low chance of cancer especially with yearly paps. The hpv vax wouldn't rid women of this. If it offers hope of some protection, and we will have to wait years to see if it works for any strains, great. If a women feel it's worth the risk of immediate side effects then go for it. But I do not believe it's worth mandating it for pre teens. That's just a money maker in my opinion.
I found one of the earlier news articles about the terrible situation and serious symptoms that more then 300 girls in Columbia experienced post HPV vaccination. More details then later articles.
The main blog explains why the Colombian episode is consistent with mass psychogenic illness.
From the comments:
"Sylvain Duford • a year ago
I currently live in Cartagena, not too far from El Carmen, and have been following this case closely.
Of all the girls that were reported sick, only one had the HPV vaccine in the preceding 48 hours. Only a few had the vaccine in the preceding 6 months. So the vaccine is definitely not to blame.
Also, of all the girls showing up sick at the hospital, all but the first one were released within a few hours with no further symptoms. Consistent with a psychogenic panic.
The media frenzy inside Colombia was quite strong and it culminated with the residents of El Carmen turning to violent protest and demanding answers from the Government when the Health Minister started saying that there was no link to the vaccine and that this was most likely psychogenic. They had to send in police re-enforcements to re-establish peace in the community.
For a while there was a lot of speculation about the possibility of a toxin in the environment or the water and the government was exploiting that angle, maybe to try and appear to be doing something. But then if it was a toxin, why only young teenage girls were affected?"
"Dan Kegel • a year ago
In case nobody else has yet, it's worth pointing to the Minister of Health's tweet on the subject: https://twitter.com/agaviriau/... http://www.twitlonger.com/show...
in which I think he says that some unvaccinated girls are also showing symptoms, which supports the idea that the vaccine is not the cause."
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The reactions were serious and long lasting. Not just a quick fainting episode or hyperventilating from "mass hysteria".
No, they were not. See above. We can put this one to rest. The vaccine did not do it.
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Anyone who takes the time to listen to people's stories about what happened to them after receiving their HPV injections will see that they all report the same types of symptoms and all deal with long term effects. They are all dismissed by the vaccine makers. Thankfully some officials are finally starting to listen in Europe, Denmark and Japan. Instead of doing a true investigation, RI is mandating HPV vaccination and some people are blindly supporting it without a second thought.
"Stories" are not data. The US investigates every "story" in VAERS and uses other sources of data, including the Vaccine Safety Datalink. Most times a "story" is just a "story". The parents who make the report may sincerely believe "the vaccine did it". That does not prove "the vaccine did it".
The response to the reports of intussusception from the first rotavirus vaccine resulted in that vaccine being discontinued and replaced with better vaccines. Why would that happen and yet there would be some massive coverup of dangerous effects of HPV vaccine?
Those who support HPV vaccine do so based on objective sources with data to back them up, not "stories". ten thousand "stories" are no better than ten, unless you can provide objective evidence that "the vaccine did it".
You can personally me call me an anti-vaxer Granny if you wish, but I am personally opposed to all this useless preventive medicine (hello ACA?) which only drives up insurance rates, and lines the pockets of the medical community, Big Pharms, and insurance companies. Sorry, another thread there.
Well, since I have your permission
Vaccination is less expensive than treating illnesses. In Canada we have strong restrictions against private sector lobbying and taxpayer funded health care. Every single political party supports vaccinations. With the pressures on taxpayer funded health care I can assure you that if this cost more than the value we certainly would not be funding each and every one of these childhood vaccines.
You're simply wrong. Believing in a conspiracy doesn't prove one.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
That is your opinion. I strongly disagree with it. I have always found them to be quick, painless and not a big deal at all. Regardless though, Paps are still recommended even if you get the HPV vaccine. It's not like the vaccine negates the need for paps.
If you ever have anything specific or relevant to say to me besides blanket general baseless accusations then I might respond.
How do you know that the majority got the HPV vaccine? You don't. Your personal experience does not negate the severe reactions that many have experienced. Due to such severe reactions it is very important to allow choice in regards to this vaccine.
Except there are not thousands of studies proving efficacy or safety of the HPV vaccine. Every time you post you make it clear that your knowledge on this topic is severely lacking.
It's quite amusing to watch the illogical calisthenics. So inserting a speculum into a vagina is NOT intrusive.
I've given you specifics, you said you didn't believe in facts beyond those you read a few years ago. (Your post, not mine).
I know the majority got it because I was helping in the classroom that day. Why are only negative "stories" relevant?
You have been provided with the studies, you just don't like them. Doesn't make them wrong. How many would be enough for you MissTerri?
What specifically would change your mind?
I note that you've grabbed on to the HPV vaccine in one state like a dog with a bone. Are you conceding the other childhood vaccines are safe, work and should be given to school children?
It's quite amusing to watch the illogical calisthenics. So inserting a speculum into a vagina is NOT intrusive.
I've given you specifics, you said you didn't believe in facts beyond those you read a few years ago. (Your post, not mine).
I know the majority got it because I was helping in the classroom that day. Why are only negative "stories" relevant?
You have been provided with the studies, you just don't like them. Doesn't make them wrong. How many would be enough for you MissTerri?
What specifically would change your mind?
I note that you've grabbed on to the HPV vaccine in one state like a dog with a bone. Are you conceding the other childhood vaccines are safe, work and should be given to school children?
How many studies conclusively establishing the safety and efficacy of a vaccine would be enough for you?
Secondly, you've moved on to HPV, are you conceding the safety and efficacy of the other vaccines as per the hundreds of links to studies in this thread alone?
I asked a specific question that no Pro-Vaccine person will answer too...
Has the US government EVER drugged, experimented on or poisoned the public and covered it up?
Does your ignoring that question mean you agree that it has?
If they HAVE then there's no reason to believe any supporting documents they may provide or commission in support of vaccines.
Lets say yes.
So what? The fact that something may have occurred in the past, by individuals not at issue in the topic at hand is relevant in what way?
On that theory I trust you don't eat food (man, you ever watch 60 minutes on the food industry?), or drive a car (cover up dangerous things?) fly in a plane? (that one pilot was on drugs), take a cruise (how about that Titanic thing?)...
That is your opinion. I strongly disagree with it. I have always found them to be quick, painless and not a big deal at all. Regardless though, Paps are still recommended even if you get the HPV vaccine. It's not like the vaccine negates the need for paps.
If you ever have anything specific or relevant to say to me besides blanket general baseless accusations then I might respond.
How do you know that the majority got the HPV vaccine? You don't. Your personal experience does not negate the severe reactions that many have experienced. Due to such severe reactions it is very important to allow choice in regards to this vaccine.
Except there are not thousands of studies proving efficacy or safety of the HPV vaccine. Every time you post you make it clear that your knowledge on this topic is severely lacking.
What? You know, just taking the opposite stance isn't the same as thoughtful debate.
Pap smears NOT invasive? It's the very definition! I mean, the exact definition of invasive. Literally. Yes, one should still get them after getting the HPV vax. But the chances of one needing to get a biopsy, have a tumor removed, which are MUCH more invasive, are tiny.
Your personal belief does not negate the lack of verifiable, authentic, real severe reactions that can be directly linked to the vaccine. If these widespread reactions were real, they would be happening in our communities constantly. They would be observable and verifiable. They aren't. They just aren't.
How many studies conclusively establishing the safety and efficacy of a vaccine would be enough for you?
Your question is far too simplistic and can't be answered as there are many variables involved. The quality and objectivity of the studies matters more then the number of them.
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Secondly, you've moved on to HPV, are you conceding the safety and efficacy of the other vaccines as per the hundreds of links to studies in this thread alone?
I have been talking about the HPV vaccine mandate in RI. Some vaccines are riskier then others. I'm not conceding anything by talking about the HPV vaccine specifically. Every illness and every vaccine carries certain risks. People should be allowed to choose in all cases.
Can you answer why you think that we need HPV mandates for school entry? I've asked you several times now and you won't answer in your own words why you support HPV vaccine mandates for school entry.
Last edited by MissTerri; 08-10-2015 at 12:27 PM..
What? You know, just taking the opposite stance isn't the same as thoughtful debate.
If you think that paps are too invasive then you don't have to get them. There are no mandates for paps. I personally don't think they are a big deal at all. Even if you get the HPV vaccine you are still supposed to get paps. It's not like getting the HPV vaccine negates the need for paps so not sure what the argument is about.
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Pap smears NOT invasive? It's the very definition! I mean, the exact definition of invasive. Literally. Yes, one should still get them after getting the HPV vax. But the chances of one needing to get a biopsy, have a tumor removed, which are MUCH more invasive, are tiny.
Having a needle filled with toxins and other questionable ingredients injected into ones body is far more invasive then a 3 minute pap smear. My opinion of course. Remember that there are no mandates for pap smears, only for vaccines. You have a choice not to get a pap but the teenagers in RI do not have a choice to forgo the HPV vaccine if they wish to retain their right to a public education.
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Your personal belief does not negate the lack of verifiable, authentic, real severe reactions that can be directly linked to the vaccine. If these widespread reactions were real, they would be happening in our communities constantly. They would be observable and verifiable. They aren't. They just aren't.
If you want to ignore the hundreds of stories regarding severe reactions, that is your choice. You, however should not force vaccinations on those in the form of school mandates, especially for things that can't be caught in the classroom.
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