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Old 05-01-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,420 posts, read 35,894,753 times
Reputation: 62785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
African-American culture is treading water or even falling backwards. Why?

These aren't rhetorical questions, as I'd seriously like to know what the hell the problem is within the black community that is holding them back behind so many communities of color which have arrived here much more recently with no job, no assets, no prospects, and not even good English.

Obviously the glorification of gangsta rappers and prevalence of ebonics and drug culture has something to do with it, but how does that end? Who in the black community (besides that serial rapist) will stand up against the decay of a culture that could aspire to so much more?
I'd seriously like to know why the AA community is struggling in so many areas. I think the best way to find that out is to ASK members of that community about their frustrations, their fears, their challenges, etc. And people have to earn the right to ask such probing questions, and then listen to the answers with an open mind and heart.

I'm all about trying to understand. The problems can't be solved till people understand the roots of the problem. And it's not enough that people who are removed from the problems "understand why" those problems exist - the people living in the midst of the problems need to understand too - and they need options, opportunities, etc.

How many of us have known women who have stayed in abusive situations and we've wondered why she didn't just leave, or press charges, or divorce his ass, or whatever? Do you know why most of them stay?
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:50 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 865,577 times
Reputation: 1464
I have a very basic theory as to why it appears as blacks have not progressed. I have already been accused as not being black in others threads, so I am sure this will be no different. And again, it is a theory, and my own thoughts.

The systematic and institutionalized discrimination of blacks have caused damage to the communities. Blacks still face obvious racism to this day. After being told how worthless and "less than" blacks are, it was just a matter of time before they naturally began to under-perform. While I do understand the disparities, I cannot blame the failures of some blacks all on the system. Some of it are their own failures. The culture within some black communities are indeed all those negative things that you see.

So, in my eyes the initial root was the discrimination and racism blacks have been subjected to, and the branches are what blacks are doing to themselves and one another. I believe blacks have become their own worst enemies.

I have always held myself to a higher standard. I did not have children out of wedlock, and made that conscious decision at literally age 10. I did not agree even as a child to have babies with a man that had one foot out the door and little going for himself. I told myself I will wait until I am financially stable, married and out of college. I have a fiance and we will talk about a family after marriage. I spent several years in universities (yes I graduated). I speak with absolutely no street accent, or that god-awful ebonics, that you speak of. I do not make excuses for my mistakes, and I believe no one should either. I have made plenty of mistakes and I own every one of them. On the contrast, my cousins ALL have children and there is no father in the home. The youngest is 19 and she is about to have a baby. None were willing to get any sort of education, and they all smoke weed. I was the anomaly. I got tired of watching my own family destroy themselves so I ran away from home at age 16. I thought I could do a better job on my own. I was a high school drop out, but studied for the GED at age 20. Enrolled in college and earned a BA in 2008, a MPA in 2012, and an MS in 2014. This was incredibly difficult, mind you. I did it. I have experienced discrimination and racism, being called a n****r, monkey, half-breed, was told what a loser I was, and decided that they were wrong and proved them wrong. Take a negative and make it positive. None of this excusing our poor behavior because of the system.

Once blacks are ready to take charge and stop promoting the negative, stop engaging in unlawful activities that places them in prison, promote higher education, stop having multiple children out of wedlock and hold ourselves accountable for our failures, we will begin to move in the right direction.

Last edited by jabber_wocky; 05-01-2015 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 05-02-2015, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,420 posts, read 35,894,753 times
Reputation: 62785
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
I have a very basic theory as to why it appears as blacks have not progressed. I have already been accused as not being black in others threads, so I am sure this will be no different. And again, it is a theory, and my own thoughts.

The systematic and institutionalized discrimination of blacks have caused damage to the communities. Blacks still face obvious racism to this day. After being told how worthless and "less than" blacks are, it was just a matter of time before they naturally began to under-perform. While I do understand the disparities, I cannot blame the failures of some blacks all on the system. Some of it are their own failures. The culture within some black communities are indeed all those negative things that you see.

So, in my eyes the initial root was the discrimination and racism blacks have been subjected to, and the branches are what blacks are doing to themselves and one another. I believe blacks have become their own worst enemies.

I have always held myself to a higher standard. I did not have children out of wedlock, and made that conscious decision at literally age 10. I did not agree even as a child to have babies with a man that had one foot out the door and little going for himself. I told myself I will wait until I am financially stable, married and out of college. I have a fiance and we will talk about a family after marriage. I spent several years in universities (yes I graduated). I speak with absolutely no street accent, or that god-awful ebonics, that you speak of. I do not make excuses for my mistakes, and I believe no one should either. I have made plenty of mistakes and I own every one of them. On the contrast, my cousins ALL have children and there is no father in the home. The youngest is 19 and she is about to have a baby. None were willing to get any sort of education, and they all smoke weed. I was the anomaly. I got tired of watching my own family destroy themselves so I ran away from home at age 16. I thought I could do a better job on my own. I was a high school drop out, but studied for the GED at age 20. Enrolled in college and earned a BA in 2008, a MPA in 2012, and an MS in 2014. This was incredibly difficult, mind you. I did it. I have experienced discrimination and racism, being called a n****r, monkey, half-breed, was told what a loser I was, and decided that they were wrong and proved them wrong. Take a negative and make it positive. None of this excusing our poor behavior because of the system.

Once blacks are ready to take charge and stop promoting the negative, stop engaging in unlawful activities that places them in prison, promote higher education, stop having multiple children out of wedlock and hold ourselves accountable for our failures, we will begin to move in the right direction.
This is a great post and thank you for sharing your story. I have AA nieces who have made it out of the projects and their stories are very similar to yours, so YES - it can be done.

And YES - it is very difficult. My gosh, I wonder how many people reading your story are sitting there in their chairs overweight - who struggle with weight loss every day. Or maybe they're alcoholics, or addicted to prescription drugs, or smokers. Or they may get no physical exercise. My point is that, even with many advantages and options and education laid out for them, it's incredibly difficult to make lifestyle changes, even lifestyle changes that DON'T COST ANYTHING and that would be supported by loved ones if implemented. If a person can't even change their lifestyle to keep twenty pounds at bay, they ought to be able to imagine how difficult the changes you made in your lifestyle are.

What about people who are stuck in dysfunctional relationships? You can talk yourself blue in the face to them about personal boundaries, what constitutes abuse, misogyny, you name it, but it's incredibly difficult for people to change the way they interact and what they expect in intimate relationships. Can they change? Of course. It's possible, but very difficult, and it requires a very deep level of change in one's heart, mind, and psyche.

Throw in some learning disabilities, or sexual abuse, or very poor nutrition, a parent's drug use, lead paint exposure, (fill in the blank) and it becomes even more difficult to remake oneself.

I wonder - and you don't have to answer if the questions are too personal - but were your mom and dad married? Did your mom drink or take drugs when she was pregnant with you? Did either of your parents ever spend time in prison? Were you a malnourished child? Were you sexually abused as a child? Do you have any learning disabilities? Is your IQ within normal range? Was your home ever condemned, or were you ever removed from the home as a child due to neglect or abuse? Were your parents physically abusive to each other or to their kids? Did your parents graduate from high school? Did your mom and dad work outside the home at a job? Did and of THEIR parents and/or siblings (your grandparents and aunts and uncles) graduate from high school? What about college? What about careers after school?

Who were your role models growing up? Where did your sense of hope and your assurance of your abilities come from?

The reason why I am asking these questions is not to put you on the spot, and like I said, I'm not demanding that you answer those questions. I'm just asking them to make the point that many kids have such deep, profound odds stacked against them that it's hard for many of us to imagine the abject conditions they are raised in.

Every negative answer from the list above lessens the chances of a child to escape the cycle of poverty. Every positive answer increases the chances of the same child.

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 05-02-2015 at 07:40 AM..
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:00 AM
 
11,213 posts, read 8,359,868 times
Reputation: 20263
I know a young woman who has.... I believe six at this time children. She was sexually assaulted by a family member when she was 12. She got pregnant with her first child at 14. She has been in the public assistance system her whole life. After her... 4th? 5th? I forget... child she BEGGED to have her tubes tied. They declined and put her on a birth control system and she got pregnant again. Some of these women are targeted for future abortion by some clinics (can you say Planned Parenthood?) This particular woman - she's with the father of all but the first child - they're not married, I think that throws them into other conflicts. He works so she'd probably lose the day care benefits, etc, that they'd never be able to afford. She calls him her husband. She probably wouldn't refer to herself as a single mom. I feel for her. She tries and she SURE would slap her boys upside their haids!

all this to say: please don't judge. we're not all as perfect as you think you are
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Old 05-02-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Fairfield of the Ohio
709 posts, read 512,980 times
Reputation: 2091
[quote=KathrynAragon;39453865]Whose actions are we responsible for - theirs or our own?[/quote

So the answer to my question is what?
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Old 05-02-2015, 09:51 AM
 
9,215 posts, read 4,243,243 times
Reputation: 11002
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
This has what to do with the incident with her son at the riot?
Absolutely nothing but you are free to assume whatever you wish since you do not know her, every detail of her life or the reason she is a single Mother of six children.
How do you know she is living off of welfare alone? Do you see her accounts? Get her mail? Know every detail of her finances and life?
No you do not and you are making assumptions based on a story you read somewhere more than likely.
However, if it is in the news then whatever they say must be the truth and all of the details are always in the story because it is in the news and they never leave out anything or lie or embellish.


PS ~~ If you did not "mean to offend" you would have never started this thread.
I think you make some valid points about assumptions the other poster made. However poor single women should not be having multiple kids they cannot afford to care for, nor raise properly.
The entitlement mentality of many of them is astounding. Taxpayers were not born to provide for other peoples irresponsible behavior.

As to this mother, I gave her plenty of credit when I first heard the story and watched the video. However I have since heard that she did interviews saying she did it for different reasons than I assumed. She claims to have done it for fear that her son would be hurt or killed, but yet didn't condemn the rioting. While it is certainly understandable that a parent would want to protect their kid from harm, they also need to set the right moral tone.
Her not mentioning the fact that he was engaging in criminal behavior and that was the reason she was disciplining him is an issue in my book.
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Old 05-02-2015, 09:58 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 683,136 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I think you make some valid points about assumptions the other poster made. However poor single women should not be having multiple kids they cannot afford to care for, nor raise properly.
The entitlement mentality of many of them is astounding. Taxpayers were not born to provide for other peoples irresponsible behavior.

As to this mother, I gave her plenty of credit when I first heard the story and watched the video. However I have since heard that she did interviews saying she did it for different reasons than I assumed. She claims to have done it for fear that her son would be hurt or killed, but yet didn't condemn the rioting. While it is certainly understandable that a parent would want to protect their kid from harm, they also need to set the right moral tone.
Her not mentioning the fact that he was engaging in criminal behavior and that was the reason she was disciplining him is an issue in my book.
BBM

Then I guess you didn't hear her tell her son, you were raised better than this.

Just saying.
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Old 05-02-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,420 posts, read 35,894,753 times
Reputation: 62785
[quote=sspistol;39458008]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Whose actions are we responsible for - theirs or our own?[/quote

So the answer to my question is what?
I'll answer your question:

Quote:
What did any of the rioters in Baltimore do to eradicate any of the above listed either? Quite the opposite would be more factual.
I think the RIOTERS did much more harm than good. I think the PROTESTERS were well within their constitutional rights and that peaceful protests can do a LOT to eradicate social problems.

Now - I'll ask my question again and I would like for you to return the favor and answer it:

Whose actions are we responsible for - the rioters or our own? Do our actions and opinions do anything to eradicate whatever it is we're pontificating about?
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
615 posts, read 361,781 times
Reputation: 1337
You guys generalize groups of people so much, it's going to make my brain explode. >.<
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,845 posts, read 3,953,853 times
Reputation: 6489
Does anyone really beleive poor women will have fewer kids if there was no government support?

History up until the present day shows that woman have fewer children the more successful they become.
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