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Old 05-03-2015, 01:40 PM
 
44,121 posts, read 17,584,196 times
Reputation: 18605

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMDWRECK View Post
There is a goalie. There are multiple goalies. Hell, there are black and white goalies. Until this country comes to full terms with its past and not try to sweep it under the rug there will always be goalies and resentful people.

White flight is a perfect example of white people blocking the integration of african americans into the white way of life. In the 1960's the country club district of kansas city had 3 affluent public schools with 3k plus students in each, federal laws made the schools integrate and in less than 10 years 90% of the former white students were in private schools or left the neighborhood.

In the mid 1960's My african american grandpa, who owned a construction company in georgia finally saved enough money to move into a white upper-middle class neighborhood despite racist housing laws tried to sign my uncles up for the boyscouts, cub scouts and a private golf team and he was told that he should probably sign up with troops across town because it would make the white families uncomfortable.

The police are goalies too. I have been pulled over several times because I "look suspicious or different" or I "fit the description of a drug-dealer". I routinely was stopped by police in my parents affluent neighborhood until I left, and I was young and not educated enough to know that me "having my hand out the window" or "circling a neighborhood twice" wasn't reason enough to have my car searched but I was young and innocent and I let them and it became a way of life.

But there are goalies when I as an African American cannot walk down the street in a rich neighborhood without an officer asking me do I live close by or where am I going. Its not any of his damn business where I'm going or where I came from.

Being harassed like that consistently definitely affected me and alot of my Black peers psychologically. What message were we being fed? That people with power are allowed to hold prejudice. And that behavior fed some of my peers a spoonful of hate and resentment and they refuse to assimilate, why would you want to with so many goalies?
Points:
  • "Resentments" are the issues of those who hold them. Not the responsibility of the party they hold the resentment against. Resentments always stem from expectations.
  • Yet there are large numbers of school districts that successfully integrated. My highschool was 60%/40%.
  • 1960 were 1/2 century ago. It's irrelevant now as times have completely changed. There were still segregated schools in GA at that time.
  • Your personal anecdote about Police isn't while important to you is really irrelevant to what was said.
  • How do you know that white people are not also harassed in that neighborhood? People are cautious these days and will call about anyone not recognized as living there.
On you last point, my advice is this. If you constantly look for something then you will find it. (even if it isn't there) You can't control the actions of others, you can only control your reactions to those actions. IMO, you have to give people a reason to hate you. Hate takes time and energy and most people, by far, don't have the time for it.
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,216 posts, read 17,238,764 times
Reputation: 27076
I certain;y think there is a basis against black sounding names. It's not right, but it is there.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:13 PM
 
625 posts, read 467,044 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
None of those names are "made up".

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...name%20meaning

"Axel is a Scandinavian (Danish, Icelandic, Norwegian & Swedish) and German male given name, which is also used in parts of the English-speaking world. Its origin is ultimately Hebrew, as it is a Germanized version of Absalom."

Phoenix, of course is the name of a mythological bird. More exotic sounding than Robin perhaps, but not made up.

Brogan is an Irish surname and Cash as a surname can be English, Irish, or Scottish. Diesel is German. The engine bearing that name was invented by Rudolph Diesel.

Using surnames as given names is by no means a new thing. There are plenty in my family tree. When DH and I were naming our sons, there was little discussion about the first. He was named for his father and grandfather. For the second we wanted a first name that none of hubby's numerous cousins had already used and one that was easy to say and spell. It turns out it is a given name in my family tree, but I did not know it at the time. We also wanted to call them by their first names (I used what was my middle name until I married and that created problems with people who did not know me). As it turns out, the younger one switched to using his middle name, my maiden name, while he was in graduate school. He has cousins who also have that name as their given name.

However, the names, typically used by black families, that provoke the strongest reaction are those that are truly neologisms that were created because they "sounded" African. They are also, justified or not, linked to lower socioeconomic status.

http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/...amed-sue/?_r=0

"In another study, Dr. Figlio looked at the effect of names associated with low socioeconomic status. Here’s how he identifies those names:

Four frequent attributes of low socioeconomic status names are particularly striking: (1) the name begins with one of a number of prefixes, such as “lo-“, “ta-“, and “qua-“; (2) the name ends with one of a number of suffixes, such as “-isha” and “-ious”; (3) the name includes an apostrophe; and (4) the name is particularly long, with several low-frequency consonants. The easiest way to characterize this fourth characteristic is to count the number of “Scrabble” points of the name—I consider a name to have a high Scrabble score if its Scrabble value exceeds twenty points
."

Note that a Q and a V will score 14 just for those two letters.

"The more of these attributes a name, Dr. Figlio reports, the more likely the child is to be born to a high school dropout mother, a teenaged mother, unmarried parents, and an impoverished family. To separate the effect of these factors from the effect of the name, Dr. Figlio compared children within the same family: a sibling with one of these names versus a sibling with a more conventional name. He found that the children with the less conventional names scored lower on reading and mathematics tests than their siblings did, a difference that Dr. Figlio hypothesizes is due to their teachers’ lower expectations."

Should hiring be based on qualifications alone? Certainly. But it will undeniably be easier for someone to overcome poverty who does not have to cope with biases toward a name that puts the spotlight on an impoverished background rather than those qualifications. Parents that choose "unconventional" names should be aware that they may be handicapping their children later in life. Overcoming the negative associations of a name may be very difficult.
Great post!

Thanks for a post with some real data instead of a personal or racially biased one.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:19 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 5,110,069 times
Reputation: 8516
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
2. Barack isnt a made up name, its Hebrew.
Baruch ("blessed") is Hebrew. Barack (same word root) is, I believe, classical Arabic.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:22 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 5,110,069 times
Reputation: 8516
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMDWRECK View Post
ok.... I know a Declyn. He works at my gym. His name is odd and so is the spelling.
Elvis Costello's birth name is also Declan (McManus). He's certainly odd...
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Not.here
2,828 posts, read 3,580,699 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Hispanics generally choose names from the Bible or European (romance languages) in origin.
So do you think in the future names like Fulgencio Jones or Gaspar Williams or Humberto Reynolds might not sound too uncommon? A blend of the predominant Hispanic culture with their ancestral names?
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:54 PM
 
19,703 posts, read 10,967,771 times
Reputation: 19674
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezlie View Post
So do you think in the future names like Fulgencio Jones or Gaspar Williams or Humberto Reynolds might not sound too uncommon? A blend of the predominant Hispanic culture with their ancestral names?
"Like 'Abraham Lincoln.'"

I hope someone catches that pop culture reference.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Not.here
2,828 posts, read 3,580,699 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Because I travel in professional circles where certain kinds of names are a liability. I'm not saying it's fair, because it isn't, but it is the truth. A name like Omoefe works, but a name like Ja'Quizz absolutely does not. If you cannot make sense of this, then it's clear we live in two completely different worlds.
Where do you come up with generalities like these? Did you write the book on what works, I'm assuming for all the different professions out there, and what doesn't?
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,339 posts, read 6,120,463 times
Reputation: 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Like Sugar View Post
My thought is that you are coming up with silly excuses to justify your biases. Try focusing on their qualifications and not these fictional "emotional scars" you are making up in your head.
Agreed. I'd be willing somewhat to meet the poster halfway if s/he pointed to some evidence (even some anecdotal evidence) to support this claim, but we're talking about pure conjecture. Nothing more.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,683,761 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Because whites always know what is right for blacks and everyone else and always have the best interests of blacks and everyone else in mind. Right.
Did not say that at all. You sound like a stereotype. We were discussing incredibly poor choice in names and it was accurate and relevant for that application. Look at your name Ralph Kirk instead of https://cowpattie.wordpress.com/2010...o-black-names/ found via random internet search.

hahaha this kids are enjoying themselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11&v=pCdmiZyyGjQ

You do not know but I have a very hispanic and Papal first name. I use my German middle name as above for ease by Anglos.

Last edited by Felix C; 05-03-2015 at 05:30 PM..
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