Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-26-2015, 04:44 PM
 
72,872 posts, read 62,353,210 times
Reputation: 21815

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Baltimore will become a wasteland like large portions of Detroit and St. Louis. They will be sending in the bulldozers to push down the rubble.

Well. It seems that may happen anyway.
Parts of Baltimore are already like that. Part of why rioters have no problem laying waste to the neighborhood.

This is my theory on it. If you have pride in where you live, have ownership of where you live, then you will try to keep it nice. Chances are, if you were to offer some of those persons alot of money to leave, they would take it. In places like that, the whole point is to leave and never return if the resources are there to do so. The people who could build the place up, who have the talent, among those persons, there are many who have left, or are waiting to leave. If one truly loves where they live, and plans to stay, then one will try and makes things better or at the least, take pride in it. It would say that in the case of those rioters, there is no pride, no sense of ownership.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-26-2015, 04:52 PM
 
19,784 posts, read 12,034,337 times
Reputation: 17519
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Parts of Baltimore are already like that. Part of why rioters have no problem laying waste to the neighborhood.

This is my theory on it. If you have pride in where you live, have ownership of where you live, then you will try to keep it nice. Chances are, if you were to offer some of those persons alot of money to leave, they would take it. In places like that, the whole point is to leave and never return if the resources are there to do so. The people who could build the place up, who have the talent, among those persons, there are many who have left, or are waiting to leave. If one truly loves where they live, and plans to stay, then one will try and makes things better or at the least, take pride in it. It would say that in the case of those rioters, there is no pride, no sense of ownership.
I remember reading stories in the first few days of rioting and looting of locals who were deeply saddened by what was happening to their town.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 05:01 PM
 
72,872 posts, read 62,353,210 times
Reputation: 21815
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
I remember reading stories in the first few days of rioting and looting of locals who were deeply saddened by what was happening to their town.
There were people saddened by this. Those persons want peace. The looters and rioters have little to lose other than their lives or freedom. There is an "I don't care" mentality going on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,734 posts, read 16,758,918 times
Reputation: 29871
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm0484 View Post
If you are an unwed mother, taking time off from shift work to go to PTA meetings is next to impossible, etc. If you castigate a woman because she has children out of wedlock, reliable birth control requires $$$ and time. Hopefully, you see the point.
No, I don't see the point at all. Sex has consequences. Unless they literally don't know that a roll in the hay can make a baby there is, absent rape, some responsibility of the unwed mother. Particularly when she has four or more of them. Birth control is never entirely the answer given that it is prone to non-use, improper use or "skipping."

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm0484 View Post
I am the first person in my immediate family to go to college, but this was not due to any parental prodding. I was encouraged by a member of the Salvation Army to go to college.I found a way to do this when loans and tuition were not so expensive. Without the Salvation Army's encouragement, I would not be the person that I am today. Dangling hope in front of a person costs nothing, and the rewards can be great.
While I am not big on faith-based solutions, this is one example of it working and working well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 11:40 PM
 
34,301 posts, read 15,595,118 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanSwitek View Post
FALSE!!!! The police were there, fully prepared and willing to do their jobs. They were ordered to stand down by the mayor who was elected by the people. Do not blame the police for the failure of elected politicians.
You say FALSE !!!! Then make a statement that supports part of what I say. You claim only the mayor is to blame. When I say it's a failure of leadership at all levels that would include the mayor. Also included are government officials above mayor and the Police Chief below. This problem is the same now as it was in the 1800's.

http://www.sagepub.com/upm-data/50819_ch_1.pdf

A distinct characteristic of policing in the United
States during the 1800s is the direct and powerful
involvement of politics. During this time, policing was
heavily entrenched in local politics.

Politicians were able to maintain their control
over police agencies, as they had a direct hand in
choosing the police chiefs that would run the agencies.
The appointment to the position of police chief
came with a price. By accepting the position, police
chiefs had little control over decision making that
would impact their employees and agencies.
Many police chiefs did not accept the strong political presence
in their agencies, and as a result, the turnover rate for chiefs of police at this time was very high.


There was also limited supervision over patrol officers during this time. Accountability existed only to
the political leaders that had helped the officers acquire their jobs.

Last edited by phma; 05-26-2015 at 11:57 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2015, 01:02 AM
 
34,301 posts, read 15,595,118 times
Reputation: 13053
What too many people fail to see (and there has been many studies on how this situation develops ) is the bigger picture issues that allow us to get to this point. We have pursued a failed foreign policy and wasted our treasury to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Money that should have been spent on domestic issues.
Whenever a certain segment of society is set aside and not allowed to participate, for whatever reason, real or perceived, social order will disintegrate. So now we have a situation similar to Somalia and Black Hawk Down, but clearly not as violent. The Police go into the hood and are confronted by the residents who out number them and don't trust them. They are seen as bringing more problems than they solve. The Macho Ignorant position or idea is let them kill each other and problem solved. That will never solve the problem only make areas set aside that no reasonable person will want to pass through. All the while in more and more cites the same problem pops up and more ground is lost.
When you look at the increase in homicides in Baltimore what is telling is the statement---Police said they have no suspects in the homicides. They asked witnesses to call with information. The police can't prevent the crime ( they can't be everywhere ) and they can't solve the crimes without people who will volunteer information. They have become ineffective whether they want to do their job or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2015, 03:20 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,509,895 times
Reputation: 21097
Violence continues to surge in Baltimore. Meanwhile the mayor with 2 last names, who gave rioters room to pillage city, can't understand why the city is going to hell. Those who want to leave city, can't, because property values are collapsing. People can't afford to sell out. Meanwhile her criminal justice team is falling apart as members are resigning.

Baltimore bloodshed escalates to 28 shot, 9 dead; mayor doesn’t let it spoil her fun - BizPac Review

As killings continue, May becomes city's deadliest month since 1999 - Baltimore Sun


Frustrated Mayor


Last edited by WaldoKitty; 05-27-2015 at 03:37 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
11,981 posts, read 8,317,221 times
Reputation: 44612
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
What too many people fail to see (and there has been many studies on how this situation develops ) is the bigger picture issues that allow us to get to this point. We have pursued a failed foreign policy and wasted our treasury to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Money that should have been spent on domestic issues.
Whenever a certain segment of society is set aside and not allowed to participate, for whatever reason, real or perceived, social order will disintegrate. So now we have a situation similar to Somalia and Black Hawk Down, but clearly not as violent. The Police go into the hood and are confronted by the residents who out number them and don't trust them. They are seen as bringing more problems than they solve. The Macho Ignorant position or idea is let them kill each other and problem solved. That will never solve the problem only make areas set aside that no reasonable person will want to pass through. All the while in more and more cites the same problem pops up and more ground is lost.
When you look at the increase in homicides in Baltimore what is telling is the statement---Police said they have no suspects in the homicides. They asked witnesses to call with information. The police can't prevent the crime ( they can't be everywhere ) and they can't solve the crimes without people who will volunteer information. They have become ineffective whether they want to do their job or not.
More money isn't the solution. Some people know how to be good for nothing. You can't cause internal changes in values systems and the resulting behaviors by throwing money at them. After fifty years of that we should be able to see that we will always have these kinds of problems because it is a human problem and not an economic problem.

The city of Baltimore has been liberal for decades and has a multitude of Black people in all areas of safety, business and government. They have definitely been "allowed" to participate so I don't see how your theory is valid. The same has been true of other liberal cities.

Even more conservative cities have people of other races participating in government, business and safety. There are very few largely populated areas anymore which aren't conscientious about having diverse leadership.

It would be more accurate to say that in any society there are a number of individuals who don't care to participate and in these liberal cities people have mistakenly believed that giving them money and things will change their antisocial behaviors.

green_mariner suggests giving them money to go away. What would that accomplish? They will go somewhere where they feel even less a part of the community. And there I don't see any reason for them not to continue being alienated and angry.

What would make people either more productive citizens or make them move away is if the laws intended to keep people from violent rioting were enforced. Rewarding or ignoring bad behavior is what allows it to grow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2015, 06:39 PM
 
138 posts, read 163,662 times
Reputation: 174
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/nation...icle-1.2235531
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2015, 06:40 PM
 
138 posts, read 163,662 times
Reputation: 174
http://youtu.be/pJilKDiUdVU
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top