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I've never understood the SCV in general. In the late 1800's, sure. 150 years later? How many generations will this go on for? "My great, great, great grandaddy died in Gettysburg" -- So what?
My great grandfather fought in WWI for the Germans as a general, yet I don't go waving the flag around.
The Problem is, most of the people in support of the flag are either, ignorant to the flags history, "Growing up My Daddy flew the flag over our house on 4th July so it must be ok" or They know the flags history and flat out Don't care.
I personally think the flag is cool looking and will probably at sometime hang one in my man cave(yea i said it)
But the flag does not belong on any government building. Next time win the war and we won't have to have this conversation
I'm not saying I'm for or against, but this is a slippery slope, and....if we are going to remove the Confederate Battle flag because it identifies with slavery, that means we will tear down the White House and U.S. Capitol because they were built by slaves, right?
Also, if we are going to go around removing flags that are part of history, that means that Mexican flags should not be flown at all in the U.S., as we are no longer Mexico, and they have horrid human rights violations, and cannot control their drug cartels. Just a thought here....
Let me help YOU out. As you read the text of the definition of treason in Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, you'll find that there is no mention of secession.
No, no, allow me!
The Civil War did not begin until after insurrectional forces seized Federal property which not only included post offices and Federal armories. It didn't begin with laying siege to Forts Moultrie and Sumter, all of which were blatant acts criminal acts of insurrection. The War began with the firing upon Ft. Sumter and the Federal troops stationed within it. So let's go back to Article III, Section 3:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War, against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
Even the most doltish reading of the Constitution could not be so obtuse as to argue that, the raising an army and having that army fire upon a Federal installation wasn't an act of "levying war," and was thus a prima facie act of treason.
I'm not saying I'm for or against, but this is a slippery slope, and....if we are going to remove the Confederate Battle flag because it identifies with slavery, that means we will tear down the White House and U.S. Capitol because they were built by slaves, right?
Wrong. The White House symbolizes many more things than just slavery, while the confederate flag represents only one thing, an armed and treasonous act committed to protect the rights of southern states to do but one thing, own slaves.
Wrong. The White House symbolizes many more things than just slavery, while the confederate flag represents only one thing, an armed and treasonous act committed to protect the rights of southern states to do but one thing, own slaves.
You are taking away freedom of speech, though. Once you start, it's difficult to stop. Look at all the big brother monitoring we have now. Soon may come a time when you may not be allowed to wear any clothing with a logo or design because it may offend someone. Be careful what you wish for.
I'm not saying I'm for or against, but this is a slippery slope, and....if we are going to remove the Confederate Battle flag because it identifies with slavery, that means we will tear down the White House and U.S. Capitol because they were built by slaves, right?
Also, if we are going to go around removing flags that are part of history, that means that Mexican flags should not be flown at all in the U.S., as we are no longer Mexico, and they have horrid human rights violations, and cannot control their drug cartels. Just a thought here....
It's not a "slippery slope" since South Carolina was praising the flag of a "illegal" nation known as the CSA. What is the purpose to recognize such a symbol on Government grounds? There is no "Confederacy" in the US so what is the intent?
The Confederate cause, as I see it, was the elites of the South trying to maintain a feudalistic, brutalizing system. That system made them rich at the expense of slaves. As someone whose ancestors were slaves in the South, I have no respect for the Confederate cause.
There is something more to consider. If there is any region I would expect a "people's uprising" or some kind of revolt against the ruling elite, it would have been the South. In the South, most Whites were poor, barely educated, and had to struggle to eek out a living. If anything the elites were emiserating them too. The slave plantation system was hurting poor Whites for this reason. It's hard to get work if most of the labor force is working for free, under duress. Schools weren't exactly a big investment in the South, unless you could afford private teachers.
The elites had to convince poor Whites, who had very little, who often didn't own slaves, that it was in their favor to fight for the Confederacy. Elites had to convince poor Whites that freeing the slaves would cause problems for them. They had to convince them that the U.S. government was after them. And in those days, it was more common to identify with your state than America as a whole.
The thing is, poor Whites were already being hurt by slavery. Enslavement of another people was keeping them poor. Those who needed work could not get it. It was all about the elite keeping their standard of living.
Interestingly, it was in Virginia where European indentured servants and African servants got together and revolted against the elites. The elites used race to keep such factions from ever taking place.
Wrong. The White House symbolizes many more things than just slavery, while the confederate flag represents only one thing, an armed and treasonous act committed to protect the rights of southern states to do but one thing, own slaves.
Ahh, but the United States Government enslaved them to build these buildings, they had no choice. That doesn't matter though.
It's not a "slippery slope" since South Carolina was praising the flag of a "illegal" nation known as the CSA. What is the purpose to recognize such a symbol on Government grounds? There is no "Confederacy" in the US so what is the intent?
Well, the monument over which it flies had an intent that I think is separate from the flag itself. To be fair, that must be pointed out.
I'm not sure I feel comfortable with your assertion that South Carolina was "praising the flag" either. I do believe we should not remove and/or deface historical markers though as I am personally an advocate of not removing or trying to erase our history. Otherwise, things like our sweetgrass huts on Hwy 17 down here would have been removed long ago if it weren't for the law helping to preserve historical markers, etc.
I've been posting excerpts from the Articles of Secession and the Confederate Constitution, and so far, it is like there is still a desire to hold on to the "it's southern heritage" explanation. There is still a desire to downplay what the Confederate states goals were. Keeping and maintaining slavery was a major goal, and it was spelled out.
Actually what was clearly spelled out was their desire to follow the constitution and it's declaration of states rights.
Was a constitutional amendment proposed and ratified by the majority of states as required?
The answer to that was no it was not until after the civil war (circa 1865).
Slaves were not the only reason for the war and if you actually read the diary entries of the soldiers fighting it you'd see the reasons were actually far from slavery and more varied, generally towards the Federal Government acting like tyrants in all manner of ways wholly outside the constitution.
Kind of like what's been going on for some years now.
Making the civil war and the flag all about slavery is way,way too simplistic although it does make for an easy story line and an easy way to shut down conversation.
All you have to say is "Flag=Racism" and viola many people clam up in fear and just nod their heads...
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