Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-28-2015, 08:32 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,454 posts, read 16,543,954 times
Reputation: 29637

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
I didn't subtly imply Israel is the root cause of Middle eastern terror - I explicitly stated that. I'll say it again.

Ongoing Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza strip is the root cause of all middle eastern terrorism suffered by the USA and associated allies.

Yes, I do agree Jews control American media and a significant degree of banking interests.

And I suggest if America abandons Israel to lie in the bed of its own making, Middle Eastern terrorism afflicting the USA will promptly end.
What did you do then?

Why is it that we have to accept Muslim refugees, and yet the West can't have a single, small state in the Middle East? What rank hypocrisy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
All my comments have links. Yours don't. When speaking of "Muslim Terrorism", the subject of Israel is most definitely ON Topic. My only agenda is peace. I won't stoop to name calling.

All the USA has to do is hand certain Likud members over to the Muslims, and peace in the Middle East will commence within the year.
Is the only method of having "peace" capitulation by the West by throwing Israel under the bus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
^That would make for an interesting socio-political experiment. Unfortunately due to intense lobbying in Washington D.C. it will never happen.
We left a group that wanted to eliminate Jews to their own devices once before. The result was not only death of 6,000,000 Jews, but world-wide deaths of over 60,000,000 (link). And untold dislocations, including the displacement of European Jewry to North America and Israel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-29-2015, 09:37 AM
 
9 posts, read 7,606 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
Exactly. There was no Middle Eastern terrorism prior to 1940. We never had any war or any problems with the people in the Middle East.

It started with the Balfour Declaration when the Crown told the Rothschilds go back to Israel (or anywhere just go) and got steadily worse spiking and escalating in 1967 with the perpetual occupation of the West Bank, then Gaza etc. I'm not saying Israel is wholly responsible for the problem cuz I guess after they were fairly strongly suggested to leave Europe, they did need somewhere to go and I guess their historic homeland is as proper as anywhere. But they need to settle the feud and perpetual war is a numbers game they will not win.

In 1945, I totally agree they needed and deserved our help (despite the Rothschild banking racket). But now they are doing to Palestine what the Nazis did to them and we do NOT owe to support this endless brutal occupation.

Palestine casualties.

Absolutely false.Do you believe the things you write?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,107,838 times
Reputation: 8104
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
....
It started with the Balfour Declaration when the Crown told the Rothschilds go back to Israel (or anywhere just go) and got steadily worse spiking and escalating in 1967 with the perpetual occupation of the West Bank, then Gaza etc. ....

Palestine casualties.
Actually, Israel didn't simply occupy those lands to satisfy some trivial desire for more lebensraum or whatever. It was a response to aggression against them, and was necessary militarily as a buffer zone.

I'm not saying everything they did was justified, the Pals have many legitimate grievances. But the way to deal with that is to officially recognize the right of Israel to exist, to change the Hamas charter saying they will always work to kill and drive every jew into the sea, and instead work on a peaceful combination of legal challenges and passive resistance, as worked for Gandhi.

Israel has many times unilaterally halted its military retributions on the Pals even though they were usually perfectly justified in defending themselves ..... now it's the turn of the Pals to do likewise and accept the offers of peace.

Consider that Muslims from around the world have been flooding into Isis territory in order to join the most gleefully violent and sick and violent army in the world, one which brags about their atrocities rather than trying to hide them as even Nazi Germany and Bashar in Syria had the bit of decency to do. Same for Boko Haram. As Bill Maher pointed out, “When There’s This Many Bad Apples, There’s Something Wrong with the Orchard”.

Islam desperately needs to reform and modernize itself in order to overcome the influence of its scriptures and early history. We're starting to see exactly why belief in religions based on ancient collections of myths and superstitions is not simply another personal choice without consequences, like hair or clothing styles - but can impede and actually reverse the progress of human civilization.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,977,905 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Actually, Israel didn't simply occupy those lands to satisfy some trivial desire for more lebensraum or whatever. It was a response to aggression against them, and was necessary militarily as a buffer zone.

I'm not saying everything they did was justified, the Pals have many legitimate grievances. But the way to deal with that is to officially recognize the right of Israel to exist, to change the Hamas charter saying they will always work to kill and drive every jew into the sea, and instead work on a peaceful combination of legal challenges and passive resistance, as worked for Gandhi.

Israel has many times unilaterally halted its military retributions on the Pals even though they were usually perfectly justified in defending themselves ..... now it's the turn of the Pals to do likewise and accept the offers of peace.

Consider that Muslims from around the world have been flooding into Isis territory in order to join the most gleefully violent and sick and violent army in the world, one which brags about their atrocities rather than trying to hide them as even Nazi Germany and Bashar in Syria had the bit of decency to do. Same for Boko Haram. As Bill Maher pointed out, “When There’s This Many Bad Apples, There’s Something Wrong with the Orchard”.

Islam desperately needs to reform and modernize itself in order to overcome the influence of its scriptures and early history. We're starting to see exactly why belief in religions based on ancient collections of myths and superstitions is not simply another personal choice without consequences, like hair or clothing styles - but can impede and actually reverse the progress of human civilization.
Consider that Muslims from around the world have been flooding into Isis territory in order to join the most gleefully violent and sick and violent army in the world, one which brags about their atrocities rather than trying to hide them as even Nazi Germany and Bashar in Syria had the bit of decency to do. Same for Boko Haram. As Bill Maher pointed out, “When There’s This Many Bad Apples, There’s Something Wrong with the Orchard”.

Perhaps one needs to understand the culture these recruits have been coming from. Many are not Muslim and claim to accept Islam only to join ISIS. Other's are very recent converts that do not seem to know what Islam is but are attracted to ISIS.

https://www.facebook.com/IBTimes/posts/821792111174171
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 03:20 PM
 
1,603 posts, read 1,876,647 times
Reputation: 2065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dog View Post
There was enough aerial support. They just wanted total aerial support and the Iraqi openly admitted it. ISIS didn't magically appear at the border as the civil war had been going on in Syria for some time. The Iraqi Army was defeated when they fought the US. Please a lot of countries destroyed Iraq. Its structure was already in pieces long before the US went to war.

Again the weapons ISIS had from the beginning were not American and really you are losing credibility when you make claims that things magically appeared out of nowhere.

2. That is false.. Your information is very incorrect.. So you are denying that Assad is a brutal dictator?
3. Actually Maliki continued to destroy Iraq.
- he was so partisan in 2006 when he first came to power that he denied that Shiite militias were a security problem
- kept the military weak for fear that a powerful officer might try to make a coup against him
- played favorites with the Shiites of the south, his power base, and neglected to provide the Sunni Arab cities with key services, including enough electricity
- 2011, he declared his Sunni vice president, Tareq al-Hashimi, a terrorist, without any due process. He alienated a lot of Sunnis with this action
- Turned a blind eye to the ISIS advance towards Mosul, which destroyed all confidence in him
- Giving sensitive Government to his relatives and in effect trying to create his own dynasty
4. Are you truly telling me you don't see all the problems Europe have done all on its own? Keep in mind I also have a EU citizenship
1) The Iraqi Air Force amounted to 2 aeroplanes, two.
You seem to have a short memory: ISIS (IS,ISIL,Daesh call it how you prefer) appeared with thousands of pick-ups, weapons, logistical depots and smashed the Iraqi army into pieces.
Where were American UAV/satellites/recon? Where was the famous American "situational awareness"?
ISIS was just one group among many in the rebel galaxy until it started gaining ground in 2014 till its spectacular victories in Summer 2014 through which it occupied large chunks of Iraq and started eroding the ground of Assad and rebel forces.
To just assume that Iraq lost because "they are cowards" is simply ludicrous: American soldiers in the exact same situation would have performed the same (a partially similar example is Philippines in 1942: an isolated, outgunned, cut off American force was wiped out by Japanese. Were they coward? No, they just had to fight in conditions so desperate that the outcome was already written).
Please, the US were the main sponsor in the invasion of Iraq, the US launched the invasion, the US did it without UN approval: others (including Italy) were just stupid lapdogs with no no spine (alias Europe, I am not excusing Europe, we are just stupid servants which is even worse).
And please, are you really denying that the US armed with hundreds of million dollars the Syrian rebels?
2) So please, care to explain how it came that the US-sponsored armies of rebels (whose intents, aims and ideas were never clear nor unified) lost grounds and were almost destroyed (just see FSA) by ISIS?
3) You're right. It's also true that the US did a mess by completely failing the whole "state building" theory.
4) Please, tell me how Europe created/financed on her own initiative the actual situation in the Middle East.
Who financed the "Arab springs"? Who sponsored rebels in Syria? Who destroyed Iraq and sponsored such operation? Who is the main ally and supporter of countries such as Saudi Arabia and UAE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Bunyan View Post
There were just all those actual wars between the UK and the Turks and Iraqis in 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1920, 1922, etc.
Alias, you mean the WWI which the Ottoman Empire declared against Russian and the Allies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
Current Islamic terrorist anger is misdirected at the United States. Europeans have been exploiting and oppressing Asian, African, Middle Eastern and Native American populations for millenia (1 millenium = 1000 years, FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium) going back to the times of the Roman Empire.
Please, then explain us: all the Islamic empires, the Ottoman empire, the Chinese dynasties, the Mongol empire, the Aztec/Inca empire etc.
Also, explain us how the Romans exploited everybody but other Europeans when a huge chunk of the Empire was in Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 03:47 PM
 
1,587 posts, read 1,007,491 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
1) The Iraqi Air Force amounted to 2 aeroplanes, two.
You seem to have a short memory: ISIS (IS,ISIL,Daesh call it how you prefer) appeared with thousands of pick-ups, weapons, logistical depots and smashed the Iraqi army into pieces.
Where were American UAV/satellites/recon? Where was the famous American "situational awareness"?
ISIS was just one group among many in the rebel galaxy until it started gaining ground in 2014 till its spectacular victories in Summer 2014 through which it occupied large chunks of Iraq and started eroding the ground of Assad and rebel forces.
To just assume that Iraq lost because "they are cowards" is simply ludicrous: American soldiers in the exact same situation would have performed the same (a partially similar example is Philippines in 1942: an isolated, outgunned, cut off American force was wiped out by Japanese. Were they coward? No, they just had to fight in conditions so desperate that the outcome was already written).
Please, the US were the main sponsor in the invasion of Iraq, the US launched the invasion, the US did it without UN approval: others (including Italy) were just stupid lapdogs with no no spine (alias Europe, I am not excusing Europe, we are just stupid servants which is even worse).
And please, are you really denying that the US armed with hundreds of million dollars the Syrian rebels?

2) So please, care to explain how it came that the US-sponsored armies of rebels (whose intents, aims and ideas were never clear nor unified) lost grounds and were almost destroyed (just see FSA) by ISIS?

3) You're right. It's also true that the US did a mess by completely failing the whole "state building" theory.

4) Please, tell me how Europe created/financed on her own initiative the actual situation in the Middle East.
Who financed the "Arab springs"? Who sponsored rebels in Syria? Who destroyed Iraq and sponsored such operation? Who is the main ally and supporter of countries such as Saudi Arabia and UAE?
1. My memory is quite fine. You seem to be unaware of the massive civil war in Syria and how it spilled over into Iraq. You made the claim that they magically appeared when that is false. You seem to be under misinformation that the US didn't know what was going on. ISIS was a large group and not some tiny group. Iraq did in fact lose to ISIS because much of their military either cowardly surrendered or just plain walked away. These are facts. Lastly the US doesn't need UN approval and again a lot of countries went in and destroyed Iraq. Are you denying that the weapons ISIS had at that time were Chinese, Soviet and America?
http://www.militaryfactory.com/small...ns-of-isis.asp
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11455129
http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/iraqi-sol...cular-cowards/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...IS-forces.html

2. It is quite simple. ISIS become powerful and a lot of the ranks of rebels collapsed
3. .....
4. So in your opinion the only issues in the Middle East was the Arab Spring? Hint: Think before such things as Arab Spring.
- Who destroyed Iraq? Many countries destroyed it.
- Who is allies with the Saudia and UAE? Many countries. Not just the U.S.
- Who supported Syria rebels? France,Britain,US,Arab League,Croatian etc..

Last edited by Devon011; 06-29-2015 at 04:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,630 posts, read 10,427,624 times
Reputation: 3898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
What did you do then?

Why is it that we have to accept Muslim refugees, and yet the West can't have a single, small state in the Middle East? What rank hypocrisy.Is the only method of having "peace" capitulation by the West by throwing Israel under the bus?We left a group that wanted to eliminate Jews to their own devices once before. The result was not only death of 6,000,000 Jews, but world-wide deaths of over 60,000,000 (link). And untold dislocations, including the displacement of European Jewry to North America and Israel.
It's my impression that Muslim states have historically been quite tolerant of diverse religions. I think if Israel was forced to deal with their neighbors, they will. But as long as they can depend on good old Uncle Sam to give 'em bombs, they will keeping bombing their neighbors.

I think if we ceased military support of Israel, the neighboring Arab states would simply clean out the rightwing Likud warmongers and let the rest of the Jewish population live peaceably.

And yeah, there is a lebensraum element in the settling of the occupied territories.

Sad fact is that it was with good intentions European Powers tried to help the Jews get their own homeland only to discover once empowered Israel's method of securing their place in that spot of the world is by essentially exterminating the local populace.

Defunding Israel's war machine is not throwing them under the bus - it's letting them lie in the bed they have made. And even if it was - America sacrificing trillions of dollars and countless American lives fighting 1 billion Arabs to defend a belligerent group of 8 million is just military folly.

Let Israel sink or swim. We owe them nothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 05:23 PM
 
1,587 posts, read 1,007,491 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
It's my impression that Muslim states have historically been quite tolerant of diverse religions. I think if Israel was forced to deal with their neighbors, they will. But as long as they can depend on good old Uncle Sam to give 'em bombs, they will keeping bombing their neighbors.
Israel doesn't depend on Uncle Sam and I got news for you Israel build its own bombs.

Quote:
I think if we ceased military support of Israel, the neighboring Arab states would simply clean out the rightwing Likud warmongers and let the rest of the Jewish population live peaceably.
The US trains with countless countries in the Middle East and I got news for you the US military is also taught things by said military. Lastly Israel isn't at war with any neighboring country. Hezbollah and Hamas aren't countries and none of them can do anything to Israel government. Deal with it

Quote:
The good intentions European Powers tried to help the Jews get their own homeland only to discover once empowered Israel's methods of securing their place in that spot of the world is by going to war with terrorist who attack Israel.
There I fixed it for you

Quote:
Defunding Israel's war machine is not throwing them under the bus - it's letting them lie in the bed they have made. And even if it was - America sacrificing trillions of dollars and countless American lives fighting 1 billion Arabs under some false information.

Let Israel sink or swim. We owe them nothing.
Fixed that for you too. You can't defund Israel. Israel also defends its own self. It isn't like if the military aid (1% of GDP) Israel receives was stopped tomorrow that all of all sudden it would sink.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,563 posts, read 15,122,455 times
Reputation: 14584
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
Exactly. There was no Middle Eastern terrorism prior to 1940. We never had any war or any problems with the people in the Middle East.
There was no Middle Eastern terrorism because there was no “Middle East”. The Ottomans had it all so you didn’t have to worry about terrorism. It wasn’t exactly that nation-states were peacefully coexisting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2015, 08:47 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,586,529 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by xS☺B☺s View Post
It's my impression that Muslim states have historically been quite tolerant of diverse religions......
Upwards of the Ottoman Empire this line would have been correct. After the fall of the OE, the intolerance has grown exponentially where in most Muslim Nations in North Africa and the Middle East have driven out the populations with a different religion (there are a minor few exceptions) or have caused them to move into dark alleys to practice their religion out of sight of the Muslims with the power to do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top