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Old 07-10-2015, 04:10 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,641,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
"The Tsimhoni children are in Mandy’s Place, a 44-bed building designed for abused or neglected children. Unlike other buildings housing children who have criminal histories or facing hearings for threatening behavior, Mandy’s Place is not locked down and the children there are not surrounded by high fences.

While the judge, in sending the children there, had likened it to a “jail” and warned they would have to “go to the bathroom in front of people,” it is more of a large home, with a kitchen, dining areas and fully enclosed bathroom stalls.

“We try to make it as homelike as we can,” said director George Miller. “We even redid the front door to make it look more like a home. And there is privacy in the bathroom.”

‘Jailed’ kids in custody case face a structured summer
It will seem no different to the kids who were told it was JAIL. Paint it as pretty as you wish, they are being kept from their stuff, their friends, and pretty much their life. Call it whatever you wish, they were still prisoners for all the prettiness is worth.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:25 PM
 
18,309 posts, read 10,393,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
Yes, we know the mother is crazy. It seems to me that there must have been numerous opportunities for the judge to award custody to the father, demand the mother be psychologically evaluated, hold the mother in contempt, encourage the father to seek a restraining order, require intensive therapy for the children, etc.

It seems to me that the mother should have been removed from their lives long ago rather than allowed to have physical custody for so long. (Though I'm not sure dad is much better.) So WHY didn't that happen? Why were these children allowed to be continued to be abused by their mother?

This has been going on for five years. That's a long time. And none of it makes any sense.
Hear, hear! Exactly this! Five years of missed opportunity by this judge to craft orders that would be complied with subject to mother's punishment and yet we see her lose patience in a manner that impacts punitively towards the children only.

I'm not getting this at all. It seems so obvious the choices this judge could have made but didn't until her temper got the best of her and forced her to make some bad ones.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:25 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,345,435 times
Reputation: 13682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severs View Post
It will seem no different to the kids who were told it was JAIL. Paint it as pretty as you wish, they are being kept from their stuff, their friends, and pretty much their life. Call it whatever you wish, they were still prisoners for all the prettiness is worth.
I'm not sure what course of action the judge could have taken. Based on the court papers, the mother was clearly manipulative and abusive. She was also in contempt of court. Therefore, removing the children from her made sense. However, because of the mother's abuse, the children would not entertain a relationship with the father and they were taking their lead from the eldest. So they could not be placed with the father until they had received counseling designed to counteract the mother's manipulation.

It is notable that the Guardian ad Litem had no objection to the judge's action. Given that the court has to act in the best interests of the children .......

"This is not the usual event in a case, however it may have been the only thing she [the judge] can do to enforce the parenting order," Baskin said. "I'm not certain, between the ex-husband and ex-wife, is it getting to the point where it's volatile? Maybe she is protecting the children from the harm caused between these two people."

Now that Gorcyca has taken the action of placing the children in county custody, it's time for the parents to come forward and agree to do what the judge wants to satisfy the parenting time order, Baskin said.

"I find the wrong people may be in jail. One of the parents belongs in Children's Village," he said.

Siblings thrown in juvie hall for refusing to see dad

Too many people are quick to condemn the judge and the father. But when you start to read a bit more about the case you begin to realize that judge was between a rock and a hard place. And when you look at the court papers, you see that both court appointed specialists are critical of the mother and not of the father. That does not make the father blameless but it is quite clear that the children needed to be removed from their mother.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,322 posts, read 4,767,505 times
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I'm guessing this is a private prison with a quota to reach.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:34 PM
 
18,309 posts, read 10,393,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
The children had court appointed attorneys acting on their behalf. Did any of them object to the judge's decision to put them into the Children's Village (not jail) where they could receive counseling? And is that worse than sending them home to an abusive mother?

That it has taken five years is probably because every accommodation was made for the mother - as is so often the case - and at the father's expense.

Much is made of the father being overseas on business. But he does have a new family to support, presumably child support and very possibly alimony. He may also have felt that some time away from both parents and with professional help was appropriate.
And he may ALSO have felt that it was business as usual so "off I go with my priorities intact".

We cannot read either parents minds at this point other than to look at their past behaviour and perhaps glean what we can from that and they would appear to be both fugg-nuts concerned with their own agenda firstly and the welfare of their children lastly.

Judge should have sentenced both of them to juvvie detention for as long as it would take until they come out putting their children first.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:37 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,345,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
And he may ALSO have felt that it was business as usual so "off I go with my priorities intact".

We cannot read either parents minds at this point other than to look at their past behaviour and perhaps glean what we can from that and they are both fugg-nuts concerned with their own agenda firstly and the welfare of their children lastly.
One of the problems is that the children would not go with their father. They would not look at him, would not talk to him, would not eat food he had touched, etc. etc.. So placing the kids with the father was not a realistic option for the judge.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:52 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,641,309 times
Reputation: 2116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I'm not sure what course of action the judge could have taken. Based on the court papers, the mother was clearly manipulative and abusive. She was also in contempt of court. Therefore, removing the children from her made sense. However, because of the mother's abuse, the children would not entertain a relationship with the father and they were taking their lead from the eldest. So they could not be placed with the father until they had received counseling designed to counteract the mother's manipulation.

It is notable that the Guardian ad Litem had no objection to the judge's action. Given that the court has to act in the best interests of the children .......

"This is not the usual event in a case, however it may have been the only thing she [the judge] can do to enforce the parenting order," Baskin said. "I'm not certain, between the ex-husband and ex-wife, is it getting to the point where it's volatile? Maybe she is protecting the children from the harm caused between these two people."

Now that Gorcyca has taken the action of placing the children in county custody, it's time for the parents to come forward and agree to do what the judge wants to satisfy the parenting time order, Baskin said.

"I find the wrong people may be in jail. One of the parents belongs in Children's Village," he said.

Siblings thrown in juvie hall for refusing to see dad

Too many people are quick to condemn the judge and the father. But when you start to read a bit more about the case you begin to realize that judge was between a rock and a hard place. And when you look at the court papers, you see that both court appointed specialists are critical of the mother and not of the father. That does not make the father blameless but it is quite clear that the children needed to be removed from their mother.
Your rock and a hard place argument might have merit if the judge did not compare the children to Charles Manson's cult in the initial trial. The mother is insane and unfit to be a parent, we ALL get that. But as far as I'm concerned so is the father. Temporary Foster care in a single family home would have been better for these kids. As to an earlier argument about the father having another family in Israel, so? The child that is free and has his/her mother by his side needs daddy's attention more than the children who are for all, intents and purposes, prisoners? Sorry, no dice, daddy should have stayed here until this was rectified. Little one half way across the world can survive with just their mom for a couple weeks, while the father stays here and works on getting his 3 children out of a halfway house. His job? I'm sure he has vacation, take it. Letting his kids sit like that has further damaged any potential relationship with them. Stop using the kids as weapons and be a freaking parent. To both parents.
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,748 posts, read 10,645,247 times
Reputation: 19946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I'm not sure what course of action the judge could have taken. Based on the court papers, the mother was clearly manipulative and abusive. She was also in contempt of court. Therefore, removing the children from her made sense. However, because of the mother's abuse, the children would not entertain a relationship with the father and they were taking their lead from the eldest. So they could not be placed with the father until they had received counseling designed to counteract the mother's manipulation.

It is notable that the Guardian ad Litem had no objection to the judge's action. Given that the court has to act in the best interests of the children .......

"This is not the usual event in a case, however it may have been the only thing she [the judge] can do to enforce the parenting order," Baskin said. "I'm not certain, between the ex-husband and ex-wife, is it getting to the point where it's volatile? Maybe she is protecting the children from the harm caused between these two people."

Now that Gorcyca has taken the action of placing the children in county custody, it's time for the parents to come forward and agree to do what the judge wants to satisfy the parenting time order, Baskin said.

"I find the wrong people may be in jail. One of the parents belongs in Children's Village," he said.

Siblings thrown in juvie hall for refusing to see dad

Too many people are quick to condemn the judge and the father. But when you start to read a bit more about the case you begin to realize that judge was between a rock and a hard place. And when you look at the court papers, you see that both court appointed specialists are critical of the mother and not of the father. That does not make the father blameless but it is quite clear that the children needed to be removed from their mother.
What in the *beep* about that "rock and a hard place" requires a judge to slur a child's IQ, taunt children about using the bathroom in public, not sleeping on soft beds, and attending summer school, not to mention threatening them with "jail" (that's what SHE called it) until they are 18 and, as the crowning glory, saying nasty stuff about their siblings? I will indeed condemn her, she was supposed to be the one person who stayed rational and unbiased. She failed miserably.
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:00 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,345,435 times
Reputation: 13682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severs View Post
Your rock and a hard place argument might have merit if the judge did not compare the children to Charles Manson's cult in the initial trial. The mother is insane and unfit to be a parent, we ALL get that. But as far as I'm concerned so is the father. Temporary Foster care in a single family home would have been better for these kids. As to an earlier argument about the father having another family in Israel, so? The child that is free and has his/her mother by his side needs daddy's attention more than the children who are for all, intents and purposes, prisoners? Sorry, no dice, daddy should have stayed here until this was rectified. Little one half way across the world can survive with just their mom for a couple weeks, while the father stays here and works on getting his 3 children out of a halfway house. His job? I'm sure he has vacation, take it. Letting his kids sit like that has further damaged any potential relationship with them. Stop using the kids as weapons and be a freaking parent. To the both of them.
The Charles Manson comment clearly referred to the mother's manipulation and brainwashing of her children.

The father now lives in Michigan and works for GM.

Foster care might well have been better for the children. Do we know that the judge and the Guardian ad Litem did not consider this? Do we know whether the children would have stayed with a foster family and not run back to the mother?

No doubt the children of the first marriage do need Daddy's attention. But the problem is that they have - and continue to - rejected it thanks to the mother's manipulation. As a practical matter, there is very little he can do until they are willing to interact with him.
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:02 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,345,435 times
Reputation: 13682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
What in the *beep* about that "rock and a hard place" requires a judge to slur a child's IQ, taunt children about using the bathroom in public, not sleeping on soft beds, and attending summer school, not to mention threatening them with "jail" (that's what SHE called it) until they are 18 and, as the crowning glory, saying nasty stuff about their siblings? I will indeed condemn her, she was supposed to be the one person who stayed rational and unbiased. She failed miserably.
You are more than entitled to condemn her. However, the more I read about the case, the more I have sympathy for the very difficult position the judge found herself in.
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