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The new restrictions will make it ever harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. In the end we'd be like Washington DC, with murder rate on the level of Somalia and no legal gun ownership except for the politicians and their security detail.
Why have we not seen this happen in countries with stricter gun laws, better mental healthcare access and better social programs?
All data is for 2010, the trend was downwards since then.
Per FBI stats, the murder rates in gun friendly states like New Hampshire, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and Iowa are on the same level - or lower if only by a couple decimal points - as in Belgium, Norway or Finland. Actually Norway has the highest murder rate in this list (although it's still pretty low).
The 2010 US murder rate was 4.8/100K. 51% of all murders were committed by the blacks who comprised 12.2% of population in 2010. Doing a simple math, without the blacks, people of all other races and ethnicities in the US would have the murder rate of 2.6. Norway's murder rate is 2.2. Belgium is 1.6. Vermont is 1.1 and Iowa 1.2. Still, I am sure you'd happily settle for murder rate on par with Norway ?
Compare Vermont, NH, Idaho, Utah and Wyoming (lowest murder rates, as good or better than in Europe) to Washington DC, Louisiana, Missouri - the states with highest murder rates.
There % of legal gun ownership in the states with low murder rates is higher, across the board, than in the states with high murder rates. There's no clear relationship between legal gun ownership and murder rates (some states with decent % of legal guns have mid to high murder rates - but all states with low murder rates have high gun ownership.. go figure).
However when you start comparing demographics, you will see an immediate correlation. The states with higher % of black population are the states with highest murder rates.
Now I am not saying all blacks are criminals. Far from it. The vast majority are not. There's a very small but very important outlier - the inner city ghetto inhabitants - who are responsible for the vast majority of the murders. Europe doesn't have that. Canada doesn't have that. It's our unique problem. You won't fix it by taking guns away. They will use knives or baseball bats or sawed off pipes. The violence will still be there, except that only the strongest and fittest and meanest would be able to protect themselves and their families.
But this is a taboo subject that the left refuses to even start discussing.
Now, if you're willing to engage in a honest discussion, using verified government data and logic, I'd be glad to participate.
But I have a feeling you will just keep saying "guns are eeeeevil" and "gun owners are crazy morons" and call anyone who brings up the crime statistics' big picture a racist bigoted nazi redneck.
Last edited by Ummagumma; 07-25-2015 at 08:43 AM..
They don't have the inner city ghettos and crime that goes on in the US.
How you going to restrict guns in the hands of criminals?
Let's completely ban guns in cities like Detroit and Baltimore so no law abiding citizen can protect themselves.
They did it in New Orleans during Katrina. The police went house to house confiscating legal guns. This led to the mass wave of murder, rape and mayhem, with roaming gangs of inner city thugs (who were not disarmed) attacking families trapped in their homes and unable to defend themselves. To this day, no one knows how many innocent people were killed. The toll is high, according to the multiple testimonies of surviving victims and witnesses. The mass outrage forced Louisiana put a clause in their state Constitution specifically forbidding future gun confiscations in case of a natural disaster.
Now you can see why so many people are opposed to having a central database of legal gun ownership ?
(Note, too - while the shooting by police of an unarmed black man on the bridge was widely publicized and prosecuted and written about - and rightfully so - the wave of violence due to the gun confiscations was ignored by the media).
You don't get to decide the intent of the writers of the Constitution.
If you truly believe that no infringement of weapon type or who may hold one is what the second amendment is calling for does that mean that Rusty Houser should not only have been able to legally obtain his pistol in Alabama but was wronged when Georgia denied him a permit due to being charged with arson and having been involuntarily sent to a mental institution?
And the right to free speech is within state sanctioned forums around state sanctioned topics.
They don't have the inner city ghettos and crime that goes on in the US.
How you going to restrict guns in the hands of criminals?
Let's completely ban guns in cities like Detroit and Baltimore so no law abiding citizen can protect themselves.
Not true ... there are European cities which have neighborhoods as bad as anything in Detroit or Baltimore and there are European cities with racial problems. The difference is that, in Europe, the weapon of choice tends to be a blade or a knife because guns are generally too hard to get.
The situation in the USA is far more complex than in Europe from a constitutional, cultural and practical perspective. As a practical matter, the guns are already out there. That genie cannot be put back in the bottle and any attempt at gun control will hit law abiding citizens rather than criminals. Where I live in Arizona, I have to assume that any criminal who breaks into my home is armed and that the police will not be able to respond within 15 mins (which isn't their fault, just reality).
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When you can address fellow adults without the use of insults let me know.
