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Old 07-27-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,611,258 times
Reputation: 12523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I didn't miss it, she was talking about the 3 legged stool, pension, savings, SS. You commented on savings, I mentioned that for the most part we no longer have pensions. .
It's very unusual for an employer to just 'offer' a pension unless they need to, either in order to compete for employees, or because of collective bargaining. From the start of Reagan's term until the end of it union membership dropped from 25% to 17%, fewer unionized workplaces means fewer pensions.
Reagan Set Up the Death of the Middle Class, But China Was the Clincher*|*Dave Johnson
No, she was complaining that her mother, after a lifetime of working, is "supposed to live" on her SS check and small pension. That is not at all true. SS benefits have never been intended to replace 100% of anyone's income. The pension, while small, is something most people, after a lifetime of working, don't have at all.

There is absolutely no way we can support a system which would pay everyone 100% of their working income. Let's do ourselves a favor and not pretend otherwise.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,779 posts, read 26,078,144 times
Reputation: 33916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
No, she was complaining that her mother, after a lifetime of working, is "supposed to live" on her SS check and small pension. That is not at all true. SS benefits have never been intended to replace 100% of anyone's income. The pension, while small, is something most people, after a lifetime of working, don't have at all.

There is absolutely no way we can support a system which would pay everyone 100% of their working income. Let's do ourselves a favor and not pretend otherwise.
There is no 'pretending' but there is the small matter of a significant number of low wage earners who can't possibly save money because every penny they earn goes toward their day to day living expenses. In the past a significant number of those people would have pensions to augment social security.

So, after 35 years of wage stagnation, hollowing out of the middle class, and with the majority of jobs for someone without a college degree being low wage service sector jobs, maybe you can share something useful, like how is a person with no money supposed to save money?
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,314,885 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
There is no 'pretending' but there is the small matter of a significant number of low wage earners who can't possibly save money because every penny they earn goes toward their day to day living expenses. In the past a significant number of those people would have pensions to augment social security.

So, after 35 years of wage stagnation, hollowing out of the middle class, and with the majority of jobs for someone without a college degree being low wage service sector jobs, maybe you can share something useful, like how is a person with no money supposed to save money?
Many states and with the FedGov urging are instituting mandatory IRA accounts for all workers.
Money will be taken from every paycheck. You have to opt out if you want to keep your money.

That is the government's answer to "where is my retirement money".

And min wage places like McDonald's never offered pensions.
Part time work never offered pensions and they never offered benefits.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,611,258 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
There is no 'pretending' but there is the small matter of a significant number of low wage earners who can't possibly save money because every penny they earn goes toward their day to day living expenses. In the past a significant number of those people would have pensions to augment social security.

So, after 35 years of wage stagnation, hollowing out of the middle class, and with the majority of jobs for someone without a college degree being low wage service sector jobs, maybe you can share something useful, like how is a person with no money supposed to save money?
If this woman is receiving $1100 per month in SS benefits, she was earning about the median income. The median income absolutely allows for a modest amount to be saved monthly. If it does not, I must be accomplishing the impossible.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,779 posts, read 26,078,144 times
Reputation: 33916
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Many states and with the FedGov urging are instituting mandatory IRA accounts for all workers.
Money will be taken from every paycheck. You have to opt out if you want to keep your money.

That is the government's answer to "where is my retirement money".

And min wage places like McDonald's never offered pensions.
Part time work never offered pensions and they never offered benefits.
I'm well aware that there are a number of businesses that have never offered pensions, and never will- I'm not even arguing that. But a poster here claimed that there is a 3 legged stool yet offers no suggestions or solutions for how a person with an hourly, low income job is supposed to find 2 of those legs (pension & savings) it just strikes me as nothing more than poor shaming.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:17 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,611,258 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Many states and with the FedGov urging are instituting mandatory IRA accounts for all workers.
Money will be taken from every paycheck. You have to opt out if you want to keep your money.

That is the government's answer to "where is my retirement money".

And min wage places like McDonald's never offered pensions.
Part time work never offered pensions and they never offered benefits.

I hadn't heard that. Are they utilizing the MyRa accounts?
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,611,258 times
Reputation: 12523
I found this article on the new Illinois law:


Dentons - Mandated IRA opportunity for employees in Illinois


Sounds like an excellent program to me, provided of course they do not gouge participants with high fees.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:26 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,611,258 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I'm well aware that there are a number of businesses that have never offered pensions, and never will- I'm not even arguing that. But a poster here claimed that there is a 3 legged stool yet offers no suggestions or solutions for how a person with an hourly, low income job is supposed to find 2 of those legs (pension & savings) it just strikes me as nothing more than poor shaming.
No, that is not what I claimed. You are lukewarm, though.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,314,885 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I'm well aware that there are a number of businesses that have never offered pensions, and never will- I'm not even arguing that. But a poster here claimed that there is a 3 legged stool yet offers no suggestions or solutions for how a person with an hourly, low income job is supposed to find 2 of those legs (pension & savings) it just strikes me as nothing more than poor shaming.
I was that poster and that comment had nothing to do with what you are talking about.

No one asked where do the 3 legs come from.

Poster commented about 2 of the three legs. I only asked about the third.


Your 3 legs today are 401K/IRA, SS and your own savings.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,779 posts, read 26,078,144 times
Reputation: 33916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
If this woman is receiving $1100 per month in SS benefits, she was earning about the median income. The median income absolutely allows for a modest amount to be saved monthly. If it does not, I must be accomplishing the impossible.
In 2015 the median income is $52,250
Using the quick calculator on the SS website, a salary of $36,000 would result in a Social Security benefit of $1108.
Net pay (after tax but no deductions for health care or other benefits) for $36,000 a year is about $29,822 or $2485 a month. I suppose in some states you could save money if you were living on $621 a week, I think it is a vast overstatement to infer that 'everyone' could.

I made more than the median wage in the 70's and 80's and could not save more than 3 or 4 thousand dollars because I was a single mom, paying a mortgage and paying for child care for my boys while I worked. At that time I intentionally went to work for a public agency because I wanted a pension. After my kids were raised I began saving, but I would not have been able to save enough to retire without that pension.
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