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You grew up probably in a more functional family, where they instilled different values...this is why they call it a CYCLE of poverty. If you know a solution for breaking it that doesn't involve starving any children that are already here, then I would love to hear it.
Btw I find it ironic that many people who feel as you do are the same ones I am arguing with on the birth control thread because they don't want anyone's birth control to come from the government.
We are never going to come up with real solutions until we stop judging those who are caught in the cycle of poverty. JMO.
Also everyone does not share the same story. You really think all these women thought their baby daddies weren't going to be there for them?
My own father got sick when I was little, forcing my high school educated mother into the workforce in 1967. If it were not for my grandparents who had the means to help us, we would have been one of those families needing assistance from the government. Again, "there but for the Grace of God"...
How can we even begin to formulate a solution if every time we try to discuss certain issues, like the percentage of unwed mothers in certain populations and the percentage of births paid for by medicaid, the discussion gets shut down by liberals and the people who try to discuss the issue are labeled as racists?
I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that helping to perpetuate the cycle of poverty by giving incentives to be single mothers AIN'T NO REAL SOLUTION.
On my way home from work a few weeks ago, on npr they were telling personal stories. There was this latino woman who told her story of how she was pressured by her family and peers to get pregnant because, and I quote, "the government will take care of you".
That ain't no solution.
How much do you want to bet it won't be long until people start accusing me of being a racist?
How can we even begin to formulate a solution if every time we try to discuss certain issues, like the percentage of unwed mothers in certain populations and the percentage of births paid for by medicaid, the discussion gets shut down by liberals and the people who try to discuss the issue are labeled as racists?
I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that helping to perpetuate the cycle of poverty by giving incentives to be single mothers AIN'T NO REAL SOLUTION.
On my way home from work a few weeks ago, on npr they were telling personal stories. There was this latino woman who told her story of how she was pressured by her family and peers to get pregnant because, and I quote, "the government will take care of you".
That ain't no solution.
How much do you want to bet it won't be long until people start accusing me of being a racist?
I didn't call anyone racist. I am a liberal, though. I thought I was calm and rational, it seems it was you who brought race into our discussion. I'm not really sure what you're saying due to that. I don't think living in poverty is an incentive for anything, and the few who have kids just to get a check are, IMO very much in the minority. To me free birth control sounds like a step in the right direction, but apparently not to conservatives so I'm not really sure what you guys want.
If you read the article in the OP, you saw that the woman in question didn't just have kids; she had a husband. Her marriage ended in divorce. We don't know why, and it really doesn't matter. If the ex-husband is working, he may be working at the same level she is, which would severely limit any child support he would be able to provide.
Painting all SNAP recipients with the same broad brush is not any more helpful than whitewashing people's mistakes. HOWEVER, most people don't find it to be very useful to have someone accusing them, either. People generally know that they've made mistakes, but you can't change the past. Constructive suggestions tailored to the individual's situation, backed up by constructive help, are more likely to garner results.
You grew up probably in a more functional family, where they instilled different values...this is why they call it a CYCLE of poverty. If you know a solution for breaking it that doesn't involve starving any children that are already here, then I would love to hear it.
You're not listening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Btw I find it ironic that many people who feel as you do are the same ones I am arguing with on the birth control thread because they don't want anyone's birth control to come from the government.
Not ironic at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
We are never going to come up with real solutions until we stop judging those who are caught in the cycle of poverty.
Judging is exactly what needs to start happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Also everyone does not share the same story. You really think all these women thought their baby daddies weren't going to be there for them?
Of course not ALL. But, if they were unwed and young, I know what the chances were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
My own father got sick when I was little, forcing my high school educated mother into the workforce in 1967. If it were not for my grandparents who had the means to help us, we would have been one of those families needing assistance from the government. Again, "there but for the Grace of God"...
Not really. You see. You not only had a family, you had an extended family. Families Matter!
I didn't call anyone racist. I am a liberal, though. I thought I was calm and rational, it seems it was you who brought race into our discussion. I'm not really sure what you're saying due to that. I don't think living in poverty is an incentive for anything, and the few who have kids just to get a check are, IMO very much in the minority. To me free birth control sounds like a step in the right direction, but apparently not to conservatives so I'm not really sure what you guys want.
I'm a liberal. I also think free birth control should be readily available.
I didn't say living in poverty is an incentive. I said getting government checks for being a single mom is an incentive to having kids out of wedlock, which in turn propels the cycle of poverty.
Many liberals talk about the cycle of poverty, but none ever want to admit that having so many out-of-wedlock kids, especially if they are being paid for by medicaid, is a huge contributing factor to the cycle of poverty.
The pressure to young poor women by their peers and family to get pregnant is real. I've dated many people from the poorer communities and have observed this for years. NPR, a very liberal media outlet, has also said this many times. And yet mainstream liberals continue to deny that this is a problem.
How do we solve this? I propose we start by stop denying that single parenthood, particularly in poor communities, is a problem. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds. Kids should not be born right into poverty with a single parent. We need to encourage these young girls to go to school and make something of themselves before getting pregnant. And if that means shaming the ones that are pregnant, so be it. It's called tough love.
I'm a liberal. I also think free birth control should be readily available.
I didn't say living in poverty is an incentive. I said getting government checks for being a single mom is an incentive to having kids out of wedlock, which in turn propels the cycle of poverty.
Many liberals talk about the cycle of poverty, but none ever want to admit that having so many out-of-wedlock kids, especially if they are being paid for by medicaid, is a huge contributing factor to the cycle of poverty.
The pressure to young poor women by their peers and family to get pregnant is real. I've dated many people from the poorer communities and have observed this for years. NPR, a very liberal media outlet, has also said this many times. And yet mainstream liberals continue to deny that this is a problem.
How do we solve this? I propose we start by stop denying that single parenthood, particularly in poor communities, is a problem. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds. Kids should not be born right into poverty with a single parent. We need to encourage these young girls to go to school and make something of themselves before getting pregnant. And if that means shaming the ones that are pregnant, so be it. It's called tough love.
I don't deny it's a problem, however I can't condone letting kids that are already here suffer, because that only contributes to the cycle. To me the only way out of poverty is to get a step up out of it.
I am a firm believer (as I think most liberals are) that negative solutions only need to more negativity. People who have no hope are less likely to help themselves, not more. I admit I don't know what the solution is, but going back to the days of Les Miserable is not it.
I don't deny it's a problem, however I can't condone letting kids that are already here suffer, because that only contributes to the cycle. To me the only way out of poverty is to get a step up out of it.
I am a firm believer (as I think most liberals are) that negative solutions only need to more negativity. People who have no hope are less likely to help themselves, not more. I admit I don't know what the solution is, but going back to the days of Les Miserable is not it.
I'm not proposing we go back to Les Miserable.
What I'm proposing is the liberal community at large stop telling people there is nothing wrong with single motherhood while living in poverty. Go ahead and try to bring this subject up the next time you talk with some liberal friends. Most liberals will deny outright that it's a problem at all. They deny that there is anything wrong with popping out kids to be paid for by medicaid and other social service programs.
Here is what is currently wrong with the current system. Social programs to help these single moms are not enough to help lift them out of poverty. They are just enough to keep them barely alive.
Anyone here ever read the grapes of wrath? Remember when the family made it into the government camp? Anyone here remember what the family decided to do after having stayed in the camp for a little while?
I'll tell you. They decided to leave the camp because while in the camp there was absolutely no chance of lifting themselves out of their situation. The camp was keeping them barely afloat.
My mom and dad realized that very early on after coming here to the US. The food stamps were there as life jackets only. That's why our family was on it for about 6 months before my parents decided to stop cold turkey and never looked back.
So, here's what I propose. Keep these programs going to help keep people from drowning. At the same time, we repeatedly tell them to learn to swim without the life jackets. Put up signs, have people pay them visits to tell them, do whatever it takes to get the message across. Also tell them to stop breeding. Turn gay if they have to. Anything.
I know it won't be pretty, but at least we try to get the message across that these life jackets are not meant as a permanent solution.
My parents worked minimum wage jobs and we are all now professionals and homeowners. My parents retired a couple years ago. They each get less than $1k a month from SS and somehow they are able to keep their house.
No, I'm not angry to see my tax dollars go to helping other people. I'm not a heartless christian conservative. I am angry, however, to see my tax dollars go to waste by keeping people in perpetual cycle of poverty over generations because everyone is too politically correct to tell people the bitter truth. I'm willing to pay 50% of my income if social workers at SNAP and other social programs are required to tell people THIS AIN'T NO PERMANENT SOLUTION. Say it in a mean way. Do whatever it takes to get people to try harder.
I am for welfare to help out people who lose their job and already had kids prior to losing said job. This is what welfare was setup for to help people in transition. I am not for people out of work having babies and our system actually creates incentives for poor people to have kids. I mean they do not have to pay for the birth of their children, they get vouchers for food, housing and medical services. These poor single mothers become married to the state and leads to a cycle of poverty. As others have stated giving free birth control is cheaper than our tax dollars going to out of wedlock children.
I'm not proposing we go back to Les Miserable.
What I'm proposing is the liberal community at large stop telling people there is nothing wrong with single motherhood while living in poverty. Go ahead and try to bring this subject up the next time you talk with some liberal friends. Most liberals will deny outright that it's a problem at all. They deny that there is anything wrong with popping out kids to be paid for by medicaid and other social service programs.
Here is what is currently wrong with the current system. Social programs to help these single moms are not enough to help lift them out of poverty. They are just enough to keep them barely alive.
Anyone here ever read the grapes of wrath? Remember when the family made it into the government camp? Anyone here remember what the family decided to do after having stayed in the camp for a little while?
I'll tell you. They decided to leave the camp because while in the camp there was absolutely no chance of lifting themselves out of their situation. The camp was keeping them barely afloat.
My mom and dad realized that very early on after coming here to the US. The food stamps were there as life jackets only. That's why our family was on it for about 6 months before my parents decided to stop cold turkey and never looked back.
So, here's what I propose. Keep these programs going to help keep people from drowning. At the same time, we repeatedly tell them to learn to swim without the life jackets. Put up signs, have people pay them visits to tell them, do whatever it takes to get the message across. Also tell them to stop breeding. Turn gay if they have to. Anything.
I know it won't be pretty, but at least we try to get the message across that these life jackets are not meant as a permanent solution.
My parents worked minimum wage jobs and we are all now professionals and homeowners. My parents retired a couple years ago. They each get less than $1k a month from SS and somehow they are able to keep their house.
No, I'm not angry to see my tax dollars go to helping other people. I'm not a heartless christian conservative. I am angry, however, to see my tax dollars go to waste by keeping people in perpetual cycle of poverty over generations because everyone is too politically correct to tell people the bitter truth. I'm willing to pay 50% of my income if social workers at SNAP and other social programs are required to tell people THIS AIN'T NO PERMANENT SOLUTION. Say it in a mean way. Do whatever it takes to get people to try harder.
This is not at all the case among my friends and fellow liberals. Are you going by message boards? if so, I would hardly use that as a measuring stick of how educated, politically aware and involved people feel about current events. To many simply use it as a place to rant and rave, of both parties, but I do not consider those people true liberals, nor conservatives.
Also I feel I must restate, you say it is conservatives alone who believe single parenthood is a problem, yet it is almost exclusively conservatives who are against government funded (or even employer health insurance in some cases) paying for birth control, which to me seems completely counter-productive and doesn't make sense nor align with what you state regarding what conservatives believe about single parenthood.
Last edited by ocnjgirl; 08-01-2015 at 10:48 AM..
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