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And that's why there are permits and licenses and licensed regulated hunting guides.
Unless it's known that this guy deliberately and knowingly engaged in illegal behavior, it's more likely that he paid the fees to have everything done by the book (Purchased permit, hired a licensed local company) and was unknowingly set up by Zimbabwe's corrupt system. But because of this "every trophy hunter is a low life that deserves to be skinned alive" attitude, none of it really matters, he's been already sentenced in the court of the radical public opinion.
I seem to be a consummate rarity, here, as a non anti hunting person, that sees all hunters through the prism of guys like this dentist. This thread, truly, is a bandwagon. The vast majority of hunters, see this type of thing as disgusting as anti hunters, and as most folks do. Why, I ask, should I, be labeled as this clown? I'm not a money bags, "pillar of the community"( like the guy I described in my earlier post), with connections in the state. Or like this dentist.
As I said, the individual who shot the ram I described, I hated, and still HATE, with zeal. I don't use the term "hate" lightly. And, I am , and have been a hunter. Since I cannot pursue hunting, as it should be done, anymore, I have not been afield in a while. But I wish I could.
I would see folks not be SL emotionally driven to despise hunters, as a whole, because of clowns like this. Stove up as I am, if anyone put me in the same class as this dentist, or especially as the guy I cited, they would find themselves layed out..cold.
There are still a lot of people in the hunting crowd who do not necessarily respect the life that they kill. Unfortunately they are the most noticeable and therefore become the face of hunting for the less informed.
At the same time, I am in agreement that there are a lot of people who formed judgements yet are far removed from hunting. They simply don't have the opportunity to learn about the better ideals and philosophy that comes from exposure to the act. I don't think it's right to blame them for naturally filling in their opinion as well as they can with what they do know from their everyday lives. I expect that many are actually willing to learn with an open mind when they have the chance to see good examples being set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpm1
What makes the lions life more valuable than the deers?
For one thing, their rarity to the point of being an endangered species.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
I have nothing against hunters. I know a few personally. They are great people!
This dentist, however, is NOT a hunter, and I would never judge all hunters by this person's actions.
I don't believe in blanket judgements of any group of people. We are individuals.
As a non-hunter, I agree with this sentiment.
What makes this case particularly egregious is that the accused is a dentist, an occupation that falls under the general umbrella of the medical field where ethics is a topmost concern. Although as Americans we should tread carefully with accusations, there is already preliminary evidence against him such as a prior charge of poaching in Wisconsin and membership in an international safari club that promotes trophy hunting that has a sub-group dedicated to arrow kills.
That Minnesota Star-Tribune link in the OP has been updated and is reasonably detailed for a news story. However, that article has conflicting info about whether the lion was first shot by a bow or a crossbow.
There are still a lot of people in the hunting crowd who do not necessarily respect the life that they kill. Unfortunately they are the most noticeable and therefore become the face of hunting for the less informed.
At the same time, I am in agreement that there are a lot of people who formed judgements yet are far removed from hunting. They simply don't have the opportunity to learn about the better ideals and philosophy that comes from exposure to the act. I don't think it's right to blame them for naturally filling in their opinion as well as they can with what they do know from their everyday lives. I expect that many are actually willing to learn with an open mind when they have the chance to see good examples being set.
For one thing, their rarity to the point of being an endangered species.
As a non-hunter, I agree with this sentiment.
What makes this case particularly egregious is that the accused is a dentist, an occupation that falls under the general umbrella of the medical field where ethics is a topmost concern. Although as Americans we should tread carefully with accusations, there is already preliminary evidence against him such as a prior charge of poaching in Wisconsin and membership in an international safari club that promotes trophy hunting that has a sub-group dedicated to arrow kills.
That Minnesota Star-Tribune link in the OP has been updated and is reasonably detailed for a news story. However, that article has conflicting info about whether the lion was first shot by a bow or a crossbow.
It is important to keep in mind that he has not been proven guilty of anything. It is quite possible that he was following the rules and regs but as a result of this lions popularity the courts are going after the guides.
It is also quite likely he was not aware he was violating the law, that is why people pay guides. For all we know he thought everything was above board and the guides were solely responsible for the violation of law. He certainly did not put small money into it.
Take a deep breath. Allow the system to work. Stop attacking the guy.
It is important to keep in mind that he has not been proven guilty of anything. It is quite possible that he was following the rules and regs but as a result of this lions popularity the courts are going after the guides.
It is also quite likely he was not aware he was violating the law, that is why people pay guides. For all we know he thought everything was above board and the guides were solely responsible for the violation of law. He certainly did not put small money into it.
Take a deep breath. Allow the system to work. Stop attacking the guy.
He's a hunter. He deserves to be skinned alive, cut to pieces, fed to the hyenas, have his life destroyed and wife and kids driven to suicide, with people forming pressure groups and donating money to the cause to make sure the rest of his and his family's lives is filled with misery and pain, all in the name of humanity and compassion to animals.
Legal/illegal guides or not, if the guy didn't put up $50k there wouldn't be motivation for local guides to skirt the law.
I have the same opinions of the Asian people that consume exotic/semi-exotic animal parts as some medicine or cure-all.
I don't understand trophy hunting whatsoever ... at least in sportsfishing, there's a possibility for catch and release.
Calling the guy a lowlife, a POS, or whatever maybe accurate. However, its not going to accomplish anything.
What I would like to see happen is a boycott of the guy's dental practice. Shut him down. Make it unprofitable for him to practice dentistry. I'd love for a group to picket his office daily. Try to talk his landlord into discharging him as a tenant. Have someone stand in his parking lot and copy down the license numbers of all his patients. Take out an ad in the local paper telling people what he has done. Distribute circulars to his patients describing his "accomplishment".
I am not a fan of animal right's groups per se. However, in this case, I would alert PETA, the humane society, the ASPCA, etc. who he is and what he has done and where he practices.
If he moves to another location than follow him there. Start the whole thing over again. Teach the SOB that no matter what he does he can't escape the stigma of his actions.
I doubt that I am wrong. Anyone who could do such a dastardly thing is nothing, but a narcissist. He probably could care less about his patients. He only views dentistry as a means to earn money and live the lifestyle that he chooses. I suspect many people who know him and work for him realize this already.
In any event, he should never get another moment's peace or tranquility. I'd make a cash donation to anyone willing to undertake this effort with the confines of the law.
The most effective thing would be to exert pressure on the dental insurance carriers to drop him from their provider networks. That would leave him with only cash patients that can overlook the fact that he is a murderous scumbag.
"Shot with an arrow, then tracked for 40 hours and killed with a gun."
An arrow. Now that right there is adding to the animal's suffering for added thrills. Mr. Great White Hunter, enjoy the heaping serving of karma that's coming your way.
Legal/illegal guides or not, if the guy didn't put up $50k there wouldn't be motivation for local guides to skirt the law.
I have the same opinions of the Asian people that consume exotic/semi-exotic animal parts as some medicine or cure-all.
I don't understand trophy hunting whatsoever ... at least in sportsfishing, there's a possibility for catch and release.
And if he didnt put of the $50k none of the sustainability initiatives and preserves would be funded. There is some evidence sport hunting helped the resurgence of the white rhino.
"“Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population."
It is important to keep in mind that he has not been proven guilty of anything. It is quite possible that he was following the rules and regs but as a result of this lions popularity the courts are going after the guides.
It is also quite likely he was not aware he was violating the law, that is why people pay guides. For all we know he thought everything was above board and the guides were solely responsible for the violation of law. He certainly did not put small money into it.
Take a deep breath. Allow the system to work. Stop attacking the guy.
Yeah I can have some sympathy for the dentist if he was someone who had every intention of working within the law. However, he is the employer of his guides and given his background, he should have the background knowledge AND a working leadership background to make a proper judgement in the field. The evidence is against him.
As others have already mentioned to you, the guides used some shady methods of baiting the lion out of its safe zone in the park.
Suppose a large home builder creates a local subsidiary and knowingly hires cheap contractors who do a shoddy job of assembling those homes. If you were to buy a new home there and it starts falling apart on you, what would you think of the parent company regardless of their legal protections from liability?
On top of all this, we go back to your question that I answered where you asked why hunting lions is a big deal. Regardless of the legality of the hunt (which I think was also answered by somebody else in this thread), would a decent person be going out and hunting an endangered species to begin with?
Even if it were legal to kill an endangered species, this person's character has already been exposed by his own deliberate choices and actions. It's not as if he accidentally ended up in a position of having killed this lion.
Yeah I can have some sympathy for the dentist if he was someone who had every intention of working within the law. However, he is the employer of his guides and given his background, he should have the background knowledge AND a working leadership background to make a proper judgement in the field. The evidence is against him.
As others have already mentioned to you, the guides used some shady methods of baiting the lion out of its safe zone in the park.
Suppose a large home builder creates a local subsidiary and knowingly hires cheap contractors who do a shoddy job of assembling those homes. If you were to buy a new home there and it starts falling apart on you, what would you think of the parent company regardless of their legal protections from liability?
On top of all this, we go back to your question that I answered where you asked why hunting lions is a big deal. Regardless of the legality of the hunt (which I think was also answered by somebody else in this thread), would a decent person be going out and hunting an endangered species to begin with?
Even if it were legal to kill an endangered species, this person's character has already been exposed by his own deliberate choices and actions. It's not as if he accidentally ended up in a position of having killed this lion.
Baiting is legal in the US. I imagine it is also legal in Africa. It is far more likely this specific lion just happened to be in the area and was baited. They were not in the preserve. Barring baiting being illegal, I dont see the problem with their baiting in a legal area to hunt.
Hunting an endangered species is not illegal.
Legal trophy hunting is responsible for an INCREASE in available habitat to these animals, I have provided citations above. Legal trophy hunting is a tremendously effective conservation technique because of that.
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