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Agreed on your point about traffic stops. But read that top paragraph again. You're giving sympathy to the cop when he literally murdered a man. I highly doubt you'd be so compassionate and worried that "his life was over" if he wasn't a police officer. A uniform doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer
No it doesn't, I agree.
I'm not sympathetic to what he did, I'm concerned about a system that causes more problems than it solves.
Had the cop not shot him in the head he would be alive today.
We don't summarily execute people in the street in this country, no matter what they've done, unless they are a direct and imminent threat. It goes against everything America stands for.
This is horrifying to me. Your sentiment chills me to the bone.
But he was not summarily executed. The officer shot him maybe because he panicked when he tried to drive away. Maybe the policeman in that instance feared for his life.
He didn't just walk up to the car and think hey here is a man I think might be a criminal let me shoot him. He tried pretty nicely to handle the situation until the scramble/panic that ensued when the motorist tried to drive away.
This doesn't say the proper reaction was to shoot just that is was not an execution.
It seems to me that traffic stops are no longer just about the traffic violation but have become a vehicle (no pun intended) to catch people in the act of something, anything.
This puts way too much pressure on all parties. The cops to pull of some heroic capture of a deadly menace and the citizen to be defensive and fear overreach.
It puts cops lives in danger and makes them more aggressive. It makes the perpetrators more aggressive and puts the general public in danger when they take of and chases ensue or gun battles erupt. Traffic cops should be traffic cops and leave the investigating to the detectives and others trained to do it. Hopefully with minimal loss of innocent life and due process being the end objective.
Now, not only is the driver dead, and his family ruined, but the cop's life is over, his family is devastated, and the two cops with him who allegedly lied to cover up the truth here are also in serious trouble and their lives ruined.
I think there needs to be a serious overhaul of the traffic stop and its purpose.
Interesting points. We are seeing that more, aren't we? An overhaul and retraining, but also a system to deal with incidents that don't allow for cover ups.
Yep...looks like the DA is going to side with the Cop.
Prosecutor saw the Tape....and said "I've been doing this for over 30 years. This is the most asinine act I've ever seen a police officer make -- totally unwarranted..."
Cop pulled the Gun First, then aim it at Victims HEAD.
Perhaps when victim saw the gun pointing at his head, he got scared (geewiz---i wonder why he would get scared).
At that point, he started car----and then got a BULLET PUT INTO HIS BRAIN.
Maybe Victim was able to drive 25yards when he gave up THE GHOST.
IF the DA or PD tries to spin this one....(pretty tough considering the footage)...they will burn that city to the GROUND.
Cops should ONLY PULL A GUN...when they feel their life is in Danger---YES OR NO?
Interesting points. We are seeing that more, aren't we? An overhaul and retraining, but also a system to deal with incidents that don't allow for cover ups.
Yes, absolutely. And the tickets as revenue racket has got to stop.
So just let them go and break the law just because they are black is what your implying, so cops shouldn't enforce laws on people because they are black?
Enforcing laws involves, arresting and prosecuting people. Shooting them without a trial is not enforcing laws. It's just vigilantism.
If you look back to a lot of this started you can find of the reasons for it. Take the Polly Klass and other incidents that made national news.
The common theme? How in the world did the police stop someone and instead of detaining them and going farther into their backgrounds let them go? What happened next is interesting and while it isn't the total reason, it did contribute significantly to a more aggressive approach to vehicle stops.
Then all you have to do it look around at the names of a lot of highways, many named after patrols murdered during nothing more than a routine stop for speeding or something like that. This does not go unnoticed by those doing the stopping.
Add all this up and then combine the PR move by President Clinton to add 100,000 more police and together is became a recipe for a fast track to fewer and less stringent background checks and testing methods to screen out potential problems.
We created the scenario for this disaster and now blame the police when the departments they work for are doing exactly what we told them to do with the resources we gave them to do it.
To be clear, it is ALL of the factors noted above that are a big part of the "why" in all this, not one of them in isolation.
Hiring 100,000 police, like the hiring of 100,000 teachers (talk about nothing more than a PR stunt) diluted many police departments with an influx of undesirable candidates because these departments has to accept recruits that might not otherwise make the grade but there were quotas to meet.
What happens when you have a quota? If you fall short, funding gets cut. Who screams the loudest? Why you of course. You want and demand police protection because you want to be safe and Clinton promised you that there would be 100,000 more police on the streets.
That was some time ago but the level of policing didn't go down. The federal funding dried up but departments had to maintain their levels of policing so what could they do? They starting laying off police. Time to remember a bit of recent history here. A lot of departments cut their police staffs to lower levels because federal funds dried up. Who is responsible for that? YOU, it is YOUR government.
What happened next? With fewer police came higher levels of overtime and with that increased pressures for fewer police to do more. What the did the departments do? They accepted up armoring their police forces until they acted and looked more like soldiers than police. Who is responsible? YOU. You demanded it in response to demanding that the police do everything from responding to calls because your pizza delivery didn't arrive to calls because you got a hangnail and it is cheaper to get the police and an ambulance to show up than to deal with it yourself. This isn't exaggeration, it happened.
The we had 911 and what did you demand? More police. Instead of dedicating money to training and better police selection, the same mistake that happened in the Clinton years took place, a demand by the public to be safe with a demand for more police yet no resources to make sure those being hired were of the highest caliber. Instead, recruits passed through who should never have seen the shine of a handgun. Who demanded all this? YOU.
You see armored vehicles, new cars and SUVS, lots of automatic weapons, night vision devices and so on and just where do you think the money comes to pay for all that? You really don't care so long as there is a lot of police around to catch the bad guys.
The money comes from other areas that can get cut that no one sees. It comes in the form of cuts in background checks, compatibility testing, training and so on. The cuts come from places that the public doesn't see so that all the goodies you can see are on display. No one cared who was driving that brand new police cruiser so long as you saw more of them.
Now we have body cameras too. How much do you think these things cost? Instead of demanding better training what did YOU demand? Body cameras because in today's world technology can solve every problem from raising your kids to feeding your dog. Yeah, body cameras, that will solve the problem.
So where does the money come from to buy and maintain these body cameras? These aren't some little camera you buy at Best Buy, these are made to withstand the rigors of harsh environments. People cry like babies when their iPhone runs low on battery power yet you demand that a police body camera run all day for 12 or even 16 hours and work 100% of the time. That costs money to buy and to get them cuts are made elsewhere in the department. Grants? Are you kidding? If you still think there is free money for everything you want done you're crazy and a big part of the problem.
What this cop did seems like murder and from what we can all see, there isn't too much question, just awaiting a trial to detail everything out. This won't solve the problem either.
Read the posts on this thread, lots of people pointing fingers and demanding solutions. You did that before except you demanded the result and forgot about how that result was going to become reality. When you demand more police and don't put in place the means to make it happen you get lesser quality.
Are the police of today in general a lower quality than before? That is somewhat debatable. In the past, you didn't see and still don't, much of what goes on aside from some youtube video that you latch onto so you can be part of the finger pointers but never the solution.
If you think that the police as a whole are any different than the society in which they work you are nuts and delusional. They are just like you as a whole. (for the challenged here, YOU mean you the public ok-there will always be someone that doesn't get it).
What do you demand from the police now? More technology and just starting different training. Hello? The training has always been there to give but who is going to pay for it? Not you. Oh no, you still want a cop close by when little jonny gets into a fight with little suzy. Yes, people call the the police to respond to kids fighting in the yard after school. People just like you.
Back a little to this fiasco of 100,000 new police officers on the street. ON THE STREET, not in the office or doing background checks or training but on the street. Where do you think they came from and who do you think would take those jobs? Did you apply and become a police officer? Nope. Did most people you know? Nope. So who? Those without jobs and those displaced that came back from wars we sent them off to fight.
Did we train them properly? Nope. We simply went along with Bubba and put 100,000 of them among you, gave them a gun after rushing them through some basic training and said - happy now?
Now you sit there raving mad that what you asked for is what you got, more police and you didn't care how that happened until now.
What a shame. Had you cared when bubba made the promise and asked him who was going to pay for it all and where the training and checks resources were going to come from this would not have happened. Instead you smiled and ran to the voting booth to ask for "more please". Well you got it in spades.
When it comes to pay, you go downtown into Detroit, Chicago and almost any major city in the USA at 2am when then the bars let out and tell everyone how much money you want to do that job? None of you with few exceptions would do it for twice the pay given. So just what do you think your're getting?
Holidays? What do you mean holidays? Unless you are living under a rock, the police work 24x7x365. That means while you are celebrating Quonza, cinco De Maya, Christmas, Easter, your kids birthday, the kids ball games, your anniversary, your own birthday and every sale at Macy's, they are working.
So here we are, with some police unqualified to be police. Some of them will kill other people without justification. Others will use more force than required or approved and it will all be caught on the nice little body cam you demanded they wear but thought the money to pay for them fell off trees.
Money doesn't solve the problem either. What happens then money goes into departments? Wake up. How do Sheriffs get their jobs? Not the ones on patrol, the SHERIFF? They are elected. What does that make them? Politicians. Are you awake yet? What do politicians do with money? They spend it. Where do they spend it? Who know but when is the last time you saw a politician spend money for the public good? Hello?
How are police chiefs hired? Why by popularity, favors and by doing the bidding of elected officials of course. They don't have to be tested to see how effective they are at managing large training and officer selection processes, they are administrative junkies. Stop watching Blue Bloods, Tom Selleck steals water for crying out loud or doesn't care where it comes from wink wink. He is an actor, not the father figure at your local police department.
So what are you doing now? Screaming for better training. Better training is sitting there waiting but because you can't figure out what the problem is all you'll get is more of the same of what you have now. But wait, there is more.
You want different police and you're getting them. Instead of treating the problem, since once again you demand but can't see that it is a complex problem, the police react accordingly. Watch as response times go up and up and that seemingly minor criminal who shouldn't be arrested because he is only dirty and is toothless walks away and then molests and kills little jonny down the street. You'll scream and demand answers. You'l demand that things change.
Until you start figuring out that everything flows down from the top you'll continue to get what you demand. You don't even know what you really want and you expect someone else to figure it out?
Watch as those running for elected office promise you better policing and watch how you fall over yourselves to vote for them. Why not, that is what you did last time and the time before that. You buy what every politician is selling when it comes to the police. You never question anything so long as the burglary doesn't happen on your street and you can walk down a construction site street and no one will cat call you or your wife. Think people don't call the police because they got call called? They do. Great use of the police.
So keep it up. Keep buying all the youtube nonsense and think you can demand your way out of this. You can't. Yo need to fix this because otherwise it will get far worse than you can imagine.
You think fewer police or different police is the answer? Keep thinking that and when the day comes when crime goes out of control and no one is there to answer your pleas for help remember how it all happened.
The police are you, they come from where you come from, live where you live and want what you want. The difference is that you have for decades now treated them as a resource and instead of taking an interest in what they do and how they do it, sat by with your heads up your fecebook, twatter and every other deep dark and damp place and just now come up for air.
Welcome to the world you demanded and too bad if you don't like it. You didn't watch what your elected officials were doing with the money nor did you care when some charismatic President promised you 100,000 new police on the street, you swallowed just like Monica and smiled the whole time. The you wanted more and more and everyone since then, on all sides just gave it to you.
The cop was completely in the wrong for firing his weapon but the victim didnt help his case by attempting to drive off once the officer asked him to get out of the vehicle. Had he complied and obeyed orders he would be alive today.
Compliance does not necessarily help you, if a trigger happy cop wants to shoot you.
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