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Old 10-19-2015, 04:31 PM
 
9,542 posts, read 4,883,691 times
Reputation: 3882

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I can't grasp it because there's literally nothing to grasp. Nada. Zilch. Bupkis.

There's a big difference between "Muslims believe Muhammad is the messenger of G-d" or "Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah" and believing it yourself. I'm Jewish and grew up in an area of the country where I was generally the only non-Protestant in a room and learned both of those facts in school. Again, it didn't impact my belief system one iota to know that others believe something differently.
You can't grasp it because you're unable to imagine yourself as a Christian who has stricter standards than you have. I can imagine myself as a believer in Jesus as the son of God, the savior, the Messiah and not wanting the words Muhammad is the messenger of God in my home. To some Christians that is blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain. Or as a Muslim or Jew being very uncomfortable with Jesus is God, etc. in my home.

Though I happen to think knowing the main beliefs of religions are important for understanding world history, I'm fine with religious people who have problems with some of the content.
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: State of Washington (2016)
3,581 posts, read 2,399,953 times
Reputation: 13922
Is her child's mind so weak that reading about a subject will automatically make him want to incorporate it into his own life? Knowledge and information are never bad things to have, no matter what the topic. It shows you have sense enough to want to learn about something so that you don't shoot off your mouth and look like a fool when you attempt to discuss it. Some of these people slamming any information about Islam have more than likely never even seen a copy of the Koran and probably don't even know a single Muslim.
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:31 PM
 
7,185 posts, read 2,762,357 times
Reputation: 3172
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox View Post
OK ... so he doesn't understand the language ... why bother even listening?
There was a time when the catholic church liturgy was in Latin (not too long ago, they did away with it during the 1960's with the 'folk mass'). Most people didn't speak Latin. A lot of opera is sung in German or Italian. A lot of people don't speak German of Italian. Understanding the specific words isn't always necessary, and the sounds themselves invoke an intellectual or emotional response. It is like the ringing of the phone, or the dinging bell on a washer or microwave that signals the end of the cycle. Or the opening music in Jaws. Or the swoosh of the Enterprise in Star Trek. That is why you bother listening, because it enriches our experience.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:00 PM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,788,234 times
Reputation: 6659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
I already said, I don't know whether there's a translation in class, the textbook, the website. The point is, the call to prayer is not like a dinner bell, simply letting people know it's time to pray.

Besides, as I also said, the pillars of Islam include the same statement --- 'Muhammad is the messenger of God.' You and others apparently can't grasp why a non-Muslim can have a problem with that, or a Muslim forced to write or speak Jesus is the Messiah, Lord, son of God.
Idk, as a non-Muslim you seem to be doing just fine writing "Muhammad is the messenger of God" and not converting to Islam.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:23 PM
 
9,542 posts, read 4,883,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeHa View Post
Idk, as a non-Muslim you seem to be doing just fine writing "Muhammad is the messenger of God" and not converting to Islam.
Where does the idea that the mother or anyone else worries about converting to Islam come from. You and others who push teaching about religion seem to be the ones who keep bringing up conversion. There are religious people who object to stating, listening to, comments about God that are offensive to their beliefs or the teachings of their religion. Blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain, something like that.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:58 PM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,595,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Where does the idea that the mother or anyone else worries about converting to Islam come from. You and others who push teaching about religion seem to be the ones who keep bringing up conversion. There are religious people who object to stating, listening to, comments about God that are offensive to their beliefs or the teachings of their religion. Blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain, something like that.
So?

School is about educating people, not dodging issues that someone might find upsetting.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,062 posts, read 16,799,475 times
Reputation: 19830
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
You can't grasp it because you're unable to imagine yourself as a Christian who has stricter standards than you have. I can imagine myself as a believer in Jesus as the son of God, the savior, the Messiah and not wanting the words Muhammad is the messenger of God in my home. To some Christians that is blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain. Or as a Muslim or Jew being very uncomfortable with Jesus is God, etc. in my home.

Though I happen to think knowing the main beliefs of religions are important for understanding world history, I'm fine with religious people who have problems with some of the content.
Perhaps they should not be enrolled in public school then. After all, what would happen when Rachel can't go to a birthday party on a Saturday because it's Shabbat or Ali invites the child over for Eid Al Fatr (and oh so delicious food)? Those children are certainly going to explain their religious beliefs and it sounds like your strawman's mother would be absolutely horrified at the concept of someone explaining their religious traditions to her precious little snowflake.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:33 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,125,038 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kat in aiken View Post
There was a time when the catholic church liturgy was in Latin (not too long ago, they did away with it during the 1960's with the 'folk mass'). Most people didn't speak Latin. A lot of opera is sung in German or Italian. A lot of people don't speak German of Italian. Understanding the specific words isn't always necessary, and the sounds themselves invoke an intellectual or emotional response. It is like the ringing of the phone, or the dinging bell on a washer or microwave that signals the end of the cycle. Or the opening music in Jaws. Or the swoosh of the Enterprise in Star Trek. That is why you bother listening, because it enriches our experience.
This post is a joke. The kids a forced by law to attend school. The schtuff you posted is stuff folks do on their own.

El Nox
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:18 PM
 
1,035 posts, read 1,658,974 times
Reputation: 2156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Besides, as I also said, the pillars of Islam include the same statement --- 'Muhammad is the messenger of God.' You and others apparently can't grasp why a non-Muslim can have a problem with that, or a Muslim forced to write or speak Jesus is the Messiah, Lord, son of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I can't grasp it because there's literally nothing to grasp. Nada. Zilch. Bupkis.

There's a big difference between "Muslims believe Muhammad is the messenger of G-d" or "Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah" and believing it yourself. I'm Jewish and grew up in an area of the country where I was generally the only non-Protestant in a room and learned both of those facts in school. Again, it didn't impact my belief system one iota to know that others believe something differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
You can't grasp it because you're unable to imagine yourself as a Christian who has stricter standards than you have. I can imagine myself as a believer in Jesus as the son of God, the savior, the Messiah and not wanting the words Muhammad is the messenger of God in my home. To some Christians that is blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain. Or as a Muslim or Jew being very uncomfortable with Jesus is God, etc. in my home.

Though I happen to think knowing the main beliefs of religions are important for understanding world history, I'm fine with religious people who have problems with some of the content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeHa View Post
Idk, as a non-Muslim you seem to be doing just fine writing "Muhammad is the messenger of God" and not converting to Islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Where does the idea that the mother or anyone else worries about converting to Islam come from. You and others who push teaching about religion seem to be the ones who keep bringing up conversion. There are religious people who object to stating, listening to, comments about God that are offensive to their beliefs or the teachings of their religion. Blasphemy, sacrilegious, taking the Lord's name in vain, something like that.
I don't know about anyone else here, but to answer the bolded, I get the idea, first, because the possibility of conversion or, in a broader sense, altering one's beliefs/values in even the smallest way, is the first thing people harp on when objecting to their child's exposure to one thing or another. I don't want my child to blah blah blah because they might think, might say, might believe, might feel, might become...

And second, because anything short of "conversion" is even more petty and dumb to worry about. By picking conversion as the likely fear, I'm at least giving the mother the benefit of having some intelligence.

After all, the only things that remain short of conversion are knowledge and speech - that she objects solely because she doesn't want her son to know about or say those things independent of any actual change of heart or mind - and I reject any "standards" so strict that they fear knowledge and vilify speech.

Having clauses built into your system that prohibit anyone from knowing about other systems or reciting words from other systems is a very convenient way to maintain a system that people follow blindly simply because they don't know anything else and can't infect anyone else with what they do know by repeating the knowledge they've gained.

Want to keep someone from undermining the absolute control your system has over them? Tell them the powerful deity they worship will punish them if they so much as say this or even know that or even hear it. Don't allow it to enter your brain - because we all know education is the enemy of the fool's faith.

Look. Everyone has the right to have strict religious standards if they see fit, but everyone else has the right to think those standards are ridiculous. Especially if they interfere with increasing the next generation's understanding and knowledge of the world that surrounds it.

I'm in agreement with the poster who said that this kid should maybe not be in a public school. Don't send a vegan to a burger joint and object to him being given a menu with meat on it because God forbid, he says chicken francaise. If you have a "special needs" child - in this case, the special need being his mama's need to adhere to her "stricter standards" - and they can't be accommodated where they are, they need to be somewhere else.

As for the question of why an assignment was never brought home about Christianity, maybe it's because 1) this is still a Christian-dominated society in which most people already know the basics and beyond and 2) knowledge is the only cure for ignorance.

Considering how many ignorant Americans there are post 9/11 who seem to think they know all about Islam when what they "know" is just popularized extremist garbage coupled with twisted anti-Muslim propaganda that doesn't come close to what most Muslims actually believe and why, it's not a stretch for someone to think they might be doing some good by trying to teach a little about Islam. Make that gap of understanding a little less wide.

I don't know. Maybe it's all boogers. She has boogers in her nose and can't get them out.

Last edited by cyberphonics; 10-19-2015 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:57 AM
 
5,721 posts, read 5,475,053 times
Reputation: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
So?

School is about educating people, not dodging issues that someone might find upsetting.
And of course there is the whole issue that when this child is an adult out in the real world, his mother will not be there to write a note to his boss about work assigned to her son that she finds objectionable...
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