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Old 10-30-2015, 09:32 PM
 
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Coywolf huh? Tbh that's pretty bad***.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:42 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,919 posts, read 6,267,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branDcalf View Post
I always enjoy articles from "The Economist."

I have to admit, as much as some from the east coast pushed the non-native wolves on us in the West, I am a bit pleased they will get to deal with them.

Have fun with that. I hope no children are harmed.
I really don't mind. We're swamped with deer and could use a bit of predation to help thin the numbers. Just as elk were overwhelming Yellowstone forests.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
2,526 posts, read 1,233,769 times
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Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Are you suggesting that wolves, coyotes and domestic dogs are the same species? Because otherwise this hybrid is the definition of a new species.
In general a biological "species" is defined in part in terms of "reproductive isolation," that is, it cannot produce viable fertile offspring except with members of its own "species" ...
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I really don't mind. We're swamped with deer and could use a bit of predation to help thin the numbers. Just as elk were overwhelming Yellowstone forests.
You will likely need to drink more of the pro-non-native species reintroduction kool aid after reading this.
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:40 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branDcalf View Post
You will likely need to drink more of the pro-non-native species reintroduction kool aid after reading this.
I don't know what you mean. The Western wolf reintroductions were Canis Lupus. They were from Alberta and British Columbia populations but they were not different species.

As for the "coy-dog" or "coy-wolf" man did not create that mating. It is not the same thing as a "liger" or for that matter a mule. To my mind the term "species" is a scientific one that may or may not always accurately describe the divisions among the animal kingdom. Look, racists in our country and for that matter Adolph Hitler argued respectively that blacks and Jews were different species.

I have long suspected that the friendly Golden Retriever you pet every day is a lot more "wolf" than most people want to admit.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Floyd Co, VA
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There is a good documentary available on Netflix about them. It's called Coywolf.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
The mating with dogs is overblown, wolves eat dogs, so will coyotes when they outnumber the dog.

That said, wolves are interbeeding with Coyotes and the result are larger, heavier coyotes are very adaptable to urban environments.

Pure coyotes have always eaten just about anything, that doesn't come from a dog component. Coyotes have always been adaptable, living easily in urban areas, that too didn't come from dogs, it always existed, the nature of that beast, they are the ultimate opportunist.

There is an excellent documentary about the Coywolf shown on PBS and they explain in some detail how the Coywolf came to be, interbeeding with dogs isn't a significant factor, the coyote being very intelligent already has those those traits.

Coyotes aren't afraid of humans, they are just wary and will mimic dog behavior so they can live in close proximity to people and the food benefits that provides. It is learned behavior, doesn't come from interbeeding.

This is though, an alarming trend because many people see coyotes as timid, somewhat runty animals when in fact they are highly intelligent and far more n adaptable than dogs.

Coyotes will often coax dogs into play and draw them away from homes only to kill and eat them. It isnt that they want nookie. Same for wolves, they see dogs as food items, not mates. While wolves have interbred with wolves, in nature it ia rare with the wolf choosing a nice hot meal instead of a breeding partner. Don't forget that the alpha female will quickly dispatch a dog to fed her cubs or herself and the pack, so will other wolves.

A dog, only in rare instances is going to be allowed to live for more than a few minutes and even if interbreeding happens, a dog being allowed to remain in a wolf pack is rare. It happens, but is rare.
Agreed. I saw that same PBS documentary which aired at least a couple of years ago, so the info in the article isn't based on new information.

Furthermore, the mix is predominantly coyote, not wolf. Fifty years ago, coyotes were just as scarce in the eastern Midwest and Northeast as wolves, ie virtually non-existent. If these animals now have DNA showing dog ancestry, then it would have come from when lone coyotes were wandering into new territories. Those early coyote migrants that were already coyote-wolf mixes migrated south from Canada would have brought the wolf DNA into areas like northern New York and New England. Likely, there was a lot of inbreeding among these coyote hybrids for several generations because of their limited numbers, which may make it seem like the presence of wolf and dog ancestors was more common than it actually was; it may very well be that all of the coyotes that reside in eastern NY and western New England got their dog DNA from only 2 or 3 matings 40 years ago.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,333,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I really don't mind. We're swamped with deer and could use a bit of predation to help thin the numbers. Just as elk were overwhelming Yellowstone forests.
The problem is that these coyote hybrids don't do much about the deer problem because they generally take smaller prey like pets.

A bigger problem is that they aren't really afraid of humans. They've invaded urban/suburban areas and sometimes menace people. A few years ago a woman walking in the Buffalo suburb of North Tonawanda was attacked by a coyote.

My brothers and I own some acreage with farmland and woodlot about 35 miles south of Buffalo, and one time my brother Jim was working in the woods and looked up to see a couple of coyotes watching him. He thought to scare them away, but they stood their ground until he got his rifle off the tractor and cocked it; they recognized the sound and vanished. None of us go in the woodlot without a firearm since.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:55 AM
 
2,496 posts, read 2,532,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I don't know what you mean. The Western wolf reintroductions were Canis Lupus. They were from Alberta and British Columbia populations but they were not different species.

As for the "coy-dog" or "coy-wolf" man did not create that mating. It is not the same thing as a "liger" or for that matter a mule. To my mind the term "species" is a scientific one that may or may not always accurately describe the divisions among the animal kingdom. Look, racists in our country and for that matter Adolph Hitler argued respectively that blacks and Jews were different species.

I have long suspected that the friendly Golden Retriever you pet every day is a lot more "wolf" than most people want to admit.
An easy read on the subject that very much reflects the reality of wolf breed differences in WY, too.

Native Rocky Mountain Wolves v. Introduced Canadian Gray Wolves
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Old 10-31-2015, 02:02 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,919 posts, read 6,267,579 times
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Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
The problem is that these coyote hybrids don't do much about the deer problem because they generally take smaller prey like pets.
I suspect as they evolve further they may start taking an interest in larger prey. I just don't think that pets can provide them a steady diet. And if they take feral cats and feral dogs, more power to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
A bigger problem is that they aren't really afraid of humans. They've invaded urban/suburban areas and sometimes menace people. A few years ago a woman walking in the Buffalo suburb of North Tonawanda was attacked by a coyote.
That honestly is a problem. I think that governments should start letting people shoot at coyotes to re-instill their fear of humans. If they lose their fear of man we have a damnable problem. If they avoid us it's a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
My brothers and I own some acreage with farmland and woodlot about 35 miles south of Buffalo, and one time my brother Jim was working in the woods and looked up to see a couple of coyotes watching him. He thought to scare them away, but they stood their ground until he got his rifle off the tractor and cocked it; they recognized the sound and vanished. None of us go in the woodlot without a firearm since.
That's the way it should be. And I don't think coyotes should be protected, outside of preserves.
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