U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-30-2015, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,251,662 times
Reputation: 9011

Advertisements

So is THIS enough evidence for the evangelicals?


Greater than the sum of its parts | The Economist

Nice article from The Economist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-30-2015, 07:14 PM
 
2,496 posts, read 2,532,653 times
Reputation: 4337
I always enjoy articles from "The Economist."

I have to admit, as much as some from the east coast pushed the non-native wolves on us in the West, I am a bit pleased they will get to deal with them.

Have fun with that. I hope no children are harmed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 07:22 PM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,205,329 times
Reputation: 2909
The mating with dogs is overblown, wolves eat dogs, so will coyotes when they outnumber the dog.

That said, wolves are interbeeding with Coyotes and the result are larger, heavier coyotes are very adaptable to urban environments.

Pure coyotes have always eaten just about anything, that doesn't come from a dog component. Coyotes have always been adaptable, living easily in urban areas, that too didn't come from dogs, it always existed, the nature of that beast, they are the ultimate opportunist.

There is an excellent documentary about the Coywolf shown on PBS and they explain in some detail how the Coywolf came to be, interbeeding with dogs isn't a significant factor, the coyote being very intelligent already has those those traits.

Coyotes aren't afraid of humans, they are just wary and will mimic dog behavior so they can live in close proximity to people and the food benefits that provides. It is learned behavior, doesn't come from interbeeding.

This is though, an alarming trend because many people see coyotes as timid, somewhat runty animals when in fact they are highly intelligent and far more n adaptable than dogs.

Coyotes will often coax dogs into play and draw them away from homes only to kill and eat them. It isnt that they want nookie. Same for wolves, they see dogs as food items, not mates. While wolves have interbred with wolves, in nature it ia rare with the wolf choosing a nice hot meal instead of a breeding partner. Don't forget that the alpha female will quickly dispatch a dog to fed her cubs or herself and the pack, so will other wolves.

A dog, only in rare instances is going to be allowed to live for more than a few minutes and even if interbreeding happens, a dog being allowed to remain in a wolf pack is rare. It happens, but is rare.

Last edited by Year2525; 10-30-2015 at 07:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 08:10 PM
 
13,612 posts, read 10,307,432 times
Reputation: 17659
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
So is THIS enough evidence for the evangelicals?


Greater than the sum of its parts | The Economist

Nice article from The Economist.
Fascinating article. Thank you for posting it here. It is evolution right in front of us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 08:34 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,735 posts, read 10,633,607 times
Reputation: 19913
Quite interesting. It's not really a species by definition, but one wonders if intrabreeding will occur in the future. They seem more likely than most of the other hybrids.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Arkansas & subforums, Asia, Kentucky & subforums, Military Life, and P&OC
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,251,662 times
Reputation: 9011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
A dog, only in rare instances is going to be allowed to live for more than a few minutes and even if interbreeding happens, a dog being allowed to remain in a wolf pack is rare. It happens, but is rare.
The article, and the accompanying population of wolf/coyote/dog hybrids shows that it isn't nearly as rare as you insist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,251,662 times
Reputation: 9011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Quite interesting. It's not really a species by definition, but one wonders if intrabreeding will occur in the future. They seem more likely than most of the other hybrids.
Are you suggesting that wolves, coyotes and domestic dogs are the same species? Because otherwise this hybrid is the definition of a new species.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 08:44 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,735 posts, read 10,633,607 times
Reputation: 19913
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Are you suggesting that wolves, coyotes and domestic dogs are the same species? Because otherwise this hybrid is the definition of a new species.
I base what I wrote on this:
Quote:
Whether the coywolf actually has evolved into a distinct species is debated. Jonathan Way, who works in Massachusetts for the National Park Service, claims in a forthcoming paper that it has. He thinks its morphological and genetic divergence from its ancestors is sufficient to qualify. But many disagree. One common definition of a species is a population that will not interbreed with outsiders. Since coywolves continue to mate with dogs and wolves, the argument goes, they are therefore not a species. But, given the way coywolves came into existence, that definition would mean wolves and coyotes should not be considered different species either—and that does not even begin to address whether domestic dogs are a species, or just an aberrant form of wolf.
It is all very interesting. They appear to be in a different situation than mules or ligers (or tigons).
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Arkansas & subforums, Asia, Kentucky & subforums, Military Life, and P&OC
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,833 times
Reputation: 3870
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,179 posts, read 11,639,437 times
Reputation: 13261
Coyotes have been interbreeding with dogs, here in N NV, for quite some time. The result is the coydog, which is a more formidable species.an than just a standard coyote. I had one when I was younger, there is a good pic of him in my profile. Most of these animals stay wild, and they are a problem,. Coyotes , by themselves, are bad enough.

I was unaware that yotes have been mixing with wolves, till about a year ago. The revelation surprised me. I don't envy anyone having to deal with such mixes, in any number. Coydogs are bad enough. Especially from a stockmans point of view. The coydogs are given to thrill killing, more so than coyotes, and can and have done some damage. They really favor picking on sheep, but regularly kill calves and foals as well.

Hybriding is a dangerous business. There are "breeders" who are selling coydogs now, and that is just insane. Wolf hybrids as well, have been deliberately bred for decades, now. Some things just shouldn't be. But, we have them, nonetheless. Nothing canmuck up the system better tthan people.

It bears mentioning...the cog I had I neutered, as soon as it could be done. He was still a handful. Had he stayed unaltered, I doubt he would have been controllable. Took a lot of work to train him, and he would respond only to me. I would NOT call him a pet. He was a security animal, and a formidable one, as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top