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Old 12-07-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,440 posts, read 28,306,241 times
Reputation: 29041

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The difference is that the child grows up in a very different environment where a significant portion of the families are intact than if the children are being raised in the 'hood.
The poster I was replying to feels that all single parents are bad parents.
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,954 posts, read 7,924,028 times
Reputation: 11183
Really? Are you serious?


You are all for the woman staying at home through preschool? Fine. Your wife stays home. I'm all for choices. But to consider someone who puts their child in daycare as a "terrible parent" and their actions "child neglect" is highly judgmental, insulting, and a direct slap in the face of women like my mother, myself, and the millions of other mothers in this country who get up early in the morning and go to work.

You interpret my viewpoint as a slap in the face because you know deep down that I am right. It's so obvious that it is wrong to put a young child in daycare, that it is a compromise and a concession and a last resort and a bad resort. The "slap in the face" is your own guilt reacting to the veracity of what I am saying. The thing is, "bad parent", as I am using the term, is not a personal insult. It's an objective evaluation of an activity. So, even if you are unlucky, or make a choice that blows up in your face (choosing a bad spouse), the act of dropping off a 1 year old at a day care center is bad parenting. It may be unavoidable parenting, but it remains a terrible and damaging choice to children. It doesn't matter if you don't like it. It doesn't matter if it's not politically correct. It doesn't matter if you are a "good person" who didn't have any other choice. The act itself is conviction and damnation.


A daycare provider is just that, someone who tends the child while Mommy and Daddy are working.
And that's the bad choice right there. This situation should never exist. To get here, bad choices were made.


They aren't me. My eldest never formed the same bond with her caregiver as she did with me. Now, at almost ten, she remembers being minded by "Miss Nanci" and some of the friends she made there, but that's about it.
We were the ones who potty trained our children, we witnessed their first steps, I breastfed both of them well past a year WHILE WORKING in a highly stressful field.
And that's the bad choice right there. You should not have been working AT ALL when raising and caring for an infant. Once they hit 5 or so and are in school all day, some part time work would probably be OK as long as you are there after school and at night. But you put yourself in a circumstance to have to work at a stressful job while breastfeeding. That was you. That's where you became a bad parent. DO NOT take this personally and attack, it's just a fact of life. Other people should learn from this mistake, and not repeat it.


Working is a normal thing for both men AND women.
No, not while raising an infant/toddler. It's a choice, and a bad one. It's damaging to the kids, and guess what? It's damaging to the parent.


I am a nurturer and a provider. If anything, working parents have to do double duty - caring for the needs of their children (and with an infant it's day AND night. there was no "daycare" during the weeknights that my daughters routinely woke up wanting to be fed, diapered, held) and getting up and going to work.
No. Bad choices, bad planning, bad focus, bad execution. No double duty allowed. Single duty when you decide to have a kid. Daddy works. Mommy takes care of the baby. Both nurture, but mommy is the primary caregiver during the critical first few years. Daddy can change diapers and be nurturing and wonderful. But mommy is the CORE OF THE UNIVERSE during the first few years. This is the ideal and this what defines good parenting. Deviation from this is a compromise and leads to problems, stress, and a lot of the nonsense we see in today's society.


My mother was a single divorcee and she had no choice but to leave me in daycare.
Bad decision. Bad choice. She should have chose a better father for her kids, or stuck it out while you were kids.


My father was just getting started in his career and his child support couldn't foot all of the bills living in New York City.
See? Bad decision! Your mother should not have chosen a father for her children who was "getting started" at ANYTHING!


It would be a dereliction of duty to not work and provide for me. She would never dream of leeching off the system. I was in daycare for much of my younger years and I turned out very well.
Bad decision. She should have leeched off the system and raised you personally. I'm afraid your mother was a bad parent. By the way, MY MOM MADE MANY OF THE SAME MISTAKES AND BAD CHOICES THAT YOUR MOM DID. I love her, may she rest in peace, she fought for us to the best of her ability. But in the final analysis, if I am objective and true, SHE WAS A BAD PARENT. Reality doesn't give a crap how I feel. I will say she did something right because I am able to see and accept reality without compromise. I had to get that from somewhere. Thanks MOM!

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Old 12-08-2015, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,948 posts, read 21,747,706 times
Reputation: 21507
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
The question still remains, why were they left home alone. I can't feel safe leaving my 10 yr old home alone.

I read one article that stated her and the bf went out for something and another that said she was at work and the bf was suppose to watch the kids. Either way the kids should not have been left alone, period.
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,172 posts, read 54,646,759 times
Reputation: 66615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Really? Are you serious?


You are all for the woman staying at home through preschool? Fine. Your wife stays home. I'm all for choices. But to consider someone who puts their child in daycare as a "terrible parent" and their actions "child neglect" is highly judgmental, insulting, and a direct slap in the face of women like my mother, myself, and the millions of other mothers in this country who get up early in the morning and go to work.

You interpret my viewpoint as a slap in the face because you know deep down that I am right. It's so obvious that it is wrong to put a young child in daycare, that it is a compromise and a concession and a last resort and a bad resort. The "slap in the face" is your own guilt reacting to the veracity of what I am saying. The thing is, "bad parent", as I am using the term, is not a personal insult. It's an objective evaluation of an activity. So, even if you are unlucky, or make a choice that blows up in your face (choosing a bad spouse), the act of dropping off a 1 year old at a day care center is bad parenting. It may be unavoidable parenting, but it remains a terrible and damaging choice to children. It doesn't matter if you don't like it. It doesn't matter if it's not politically correct. It doesn't matter if you are a "good person" who didn't have any other choice. The act itself is conviction and damnation.


A daycare provider is just that, someone who tends the child while Mommy and Daddy are working.
And that's the bad choice right there. This situation should never exist. To get here, bad choices were made.


They aren't me. My eldest never formed the same bond with her caregiver as she did with me. Now, at almost ten, she remembers being minded by "Miss Nanci" and some of the friends she made there, but that's about it.
We were the ones who potty trained our children, we witnessed their first steps, I breastfed both of them well past a year WHILE WORKING in a highly stressful field.
And that's the bad choice right there. You should not have been working AT ALL when raising and caring for an infant. Once they hit 5 or so and are in school all day, some part time work would probably be OK as long as you are there after school and at night. But you put yourself in a circumstance to have to work at a stressful job while breastfeeding. That was you. That's where you became a bad parent. DO NOT take this personally and attack, it's just a fact of life. Other people should learn from this mistake, and not repeat it.


Working is a normal thing for both men AND women.
No, not while raising an infant/toddler. It's a choice, and a bad one. It's damaging to the kids, and guess what? It's damaging to the parent.


I am a nurturer and a provider. If anything, working parents have to do double duty - caring for the needs of their children (and with an infant it's day AND night. there was no "daycare" during the weeknights that my daughters routinely woke up wanting to be fed, diapered, held) and getting up and going to work.
No. Bad choices, bad planning, bad focus, bad execution. No double duty allowed. Single duty when you decide to have a kid. Daddy works. Mommy takes care of the baby. Both nurture, but mommy is the primary caregiver during the critical first few years. Daddy can change diapers and be nurturing and wonderful. But mommy is the CORE OF THE UNIVERSE during the first few years. This is the ideal and this what defines good parenting. Deviation from this is a compromise and leads to problems, stress, and a lot of the nonsense we see in today's society.


My mother was a single divorcee and she had no choice but to leave me in daycare.
Bad decision. Bad choice. She should have chose a better father for her kids, or stuck it out while you were kids.


My father was just getting started in his career and his child support couldn't foot all of the bills living in New York City.
See? Bad decision! Your mother should not have chosen a father for her children who was "getting started" at ANYTHING!


It would be a dereliction of duty to not work and provide for me. She would never dream of leeching off the system. I was in daycare for much of my younger years and I turned out very well.
Bad decision. She should have leeched off the system and raised you personally. I'm afraid your mother was a bad parent. By the way, MY MOM MADE MANY OF THE SAME MISTAKES AND BAD CHOICES THAT YOUR MOM DID. I love her, may she rest in peace, she fought for us to the best of her ability. But in the final analysis, if I am objective and true, SHE WAS A BAD PARENT. Reality doesn't give a crap how I feel. I will say she did something right because I am able to see and accept reality without compromise. I had to get that from somewhere. Thanks MOM!
But see, your perception is that every child who was raised by someone in addition to their own mother is going to have the same negative results that your mother did. I had to leave my daughter with my parents--they were my "daycare"--and yes, I had to work because of my bad choice in a husband. I own that.

My daughter did not grow up to be a compassionless, judgmental jerk just because I wasn't home with her, and likely neither did most of the children of the people on this thread who had others participate in raising their kids. My daughter is a thoughtful, intelligent person who is open-minded when it comes to accepting other people who are not like her, and while I made a specific effort to raise her to be that way, I do believe that living in a multi-generational household (my grandmother lived with us also) contributed to that, as well.

There is a book that I always recommend to people, called How To Manage Your Mother, by Alyce Faye Cleese. Of course, the book is really about how YOU manage your relationship with your own mother, whether she is still living in the flesh or only in your head. In particularly, Cleese points out that whether we realize it or not, we have "other mothers" in our lives; for example, an aunt, a teacher, a neighbor, a friend's mom--someone from whom we learned or could learn the things that we didn't learn from our own mothers.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Manage-You.../dp/0060393343

As adults, we make our choices and we have the power to change ourselves. We can learn to be different and be better people than our early circumstances may have seemingly dictated.
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,954 posts, read 7,924,028 times
Reputation: 11183
But see, your perception is that every child who was raised by someone in addition to their own mother is going to have the same negative results that your mother did. I had to leave my daughter with my parents--they were my "daycare"--and yes, I had to work because of my bad choice in a husband. I own that.

Grandparents are not ideal, but they are way better, not even in the same ballpark, compared to daycare. Daycare is a warehouse, not a loving and focused environment for growing a human being. Grandparents are invested and loving, so they are a good option when the ideal situation - a 2 parent home with a stay at home mom - cannot be achieved.


My daughter did not grow up to be a compassionless, judgmental jerk just because I wasn't home with her, and likely neither did most of the children of the people on this thread who had others participate in raising their kids.

Not every "others participate" is equal. Grandparents are one thing. Babysitters, nannies, and day care are another. Loving relatives are second best to loving parents. Day care is not even care, it is warehousing and should not be considered a form of care, but instead a form of abandonment. And by the way, if being "judgmental" means exercising rational judgement and calling a thing what it is, that's not a bad thing, it is a good thing. Tolerance for its own sake is evil. Every one of us should be very judgmental.


My daughter is a thoughtful, intelligent person who is open-minded when it comes to accepting other people who are not like her, and while I made a specific effort to raise her to be that way, I do believe that living in a multi-generational household (my grandmother lived with us also) contributed to that, as well.

Tolerance of things like race or is fine and good. But if tolerance means looking the other way at bad choices and poor character, then it is wrong and incorrect. If tolerance means we view all cultures as equal, then it is wrong and incorrect.

There is a book that I always recommend to people, called How To Manage Your Mother, by Alyce Faye Cleese. Of course, the book is really about how YOU manage your relationship with your own mother, whether she is still living in the flesh or only in your head. In particularly, Cleese points out that whether we realize it or not, we have "other mothers" in our lives; for example, an aunt, a teacher, a neighbor, a friend's mom--someone from whom we learned or could learn the things that we didn't learn from our own mothers.

How to Manage Your Mother: Understanding the Most Difficult, Complicated, and Fascinating Relationship in Your Life (Us): Alyce Faye Cleese, Brian Bates: 9780060393342: Amazon.com: Books

As adults, we make our choices and we have the power to change ourselves. We can learn to be different and be better people than our early circumstances may have seemingly dictated.

We can, but only if we recognize what is wrong and detrimental, and identify a thing for what it is. The alternative is to lie because someone's "feelings" might be hurt. If they are doing the wrong thing, their feelings should be hurt. Otherwise no change will occur. Day care is the wrong thing. Nobody should ever choose a life that includes it. If cancer takes out your spouse, that's one thing. But the typical suburban or urban day care warehouse is filled with unfortunate abused little souls whose parents could have done things differently and made better choices - if they weren't selfish, weak, and stupid. I hope for a day when day care is stigmatized and causes the proper shame in those who do it. Maybe that is how it eventually goes away. Which it should.
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Old 12-08-2015, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,788 posts, read 10,205,449 times
Reputation: 14322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
But see, your perception is that every child who was raised by someone in addition to their own mother is going to have the same negative results that your mother did. I had to leave my daughter with my parents--they were my "daycare"--and yes, I had to work because of my bad choice in a husband. I own that.

My daughter did not grow up to be a compassionless, judgmental jerk just because I wasn't home with her, and likely neither did most of the children of the people on this thread who had others participate in raising their kids. My daughter is a thoughtful, intelligent person who is open-minded when it comes to accepting other people who are not like her, and while I made a specific effort to raise her to be that way, I do believe that living in a multi-generational household (my grandmother lived with us also) contributed to that, as well.

There is a book that I always recommend to people, called How To Manage Your Mother, by Alyce Faye Cleese. Of course, the book is really about how YOU manage your relationship with your own mother, whether she is still living in the flesh or only in your head. In particularly, Cleese points out that whether we realize it or not, we have "other mothers" in our lives; for example, an aunt, a teacher, a neighbor, a friend's mom--someone from whom we learned or could learn the things that we didn't learn from our own mothers.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Manage-You.../dp/0060393343

As adults, we make our choices and we have the power to change ourselves. We can learn to be different and be better people than our early circumstances may have seemingly dictated.
Yep. I consider the source of the venom, and it's pretty obvious that poster had issues with his mother. What else can explain such judgmental malarkey? Can one even say all of that with a straight face? It's so archaic, patriarchal, me Tarzan you Jane, it's hard to believe. And also out of touch with um...most of society. On the contrary, I have a forty year, endearing relationship with my own mother. I revere her as the epitome of a mothers love and self sacrifice for her child. I admire her for her ethic, her toughness. She instilled in me a sense of worth, morals, and self sufficiency. As for me, as a highly independent woman, I respect my mom for working 9 to 5 than getting on the dole just to stay at home. Divorces happen. That's life. And I say this as someone who has been happily married for almost 13 years. Having me however was one of her best decisions and it sure feels good even now hearing her say that. She could have played the field, she was attractive. Instead she sacrificed her prime years to raise me, as I was the priority in her life, not men. That, her actions, has had far more of a profound effect on me than being with me all day and night in my infancy. Her hard work has paid off as I have been doing well both on my own and in a marriage. And I owe it all, besides God, to her. I don't harbor any parent issues. I work because I want to and I feel no guilt about it whatsoever. Especially when I am surrounded by women who are just like me. I am not a mommy martyr.
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