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I, for one, am happy that many people with severe mental illness can lead happy, productive lives with the help of psych drugs, but none of this is really the point. We don't know what caused this man's horrific actions. He's not necessarily deranged from mental illness. The fact that his ex-wife says he was normal earlier in life tells me this is probably not mental illness, unless she's being evasive or genuinely missed the signs. He's way beyond the typical onset of paranoid schizophrenia and related conditions, and there are other possible causes of deterioration of rational thought and emotionally-appropriate behavior. Drugs are one. A medical condition is another. Or, like Unsettomati alluded to, he could just believe violence is the only solution to what he views as injustice.
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Originally Posted by ericsvibe
Fact #3, If he really wanted to stop abortion, why would he shoot the patients and not target the Dr. and medical staff.
That one is easy. The staff at PP was well drilled in safety protocol. When the receptionist heard the gunfire start outside, she alerted the staff who implemented protective measures. In the few minutes it took for him to break into the building, they were all well hidden behind secured doors. Police arrived almost immediately and engaged him, which kept him occupied. The two civilians killed were the most accessible. One was shot in the parking lot, and the other was in the waiting room. She wasn't even a patient. She had simply accompanied her friend to an appointment.
Last edited by randomparent; 11-30-2015 at 08:30 AM..
The 09/11 attackers weren't insane. They committed a very deliberate act with clear goals in mind. This made this indescribably horrible people - but not insane.
Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bombers, wasn't insane. He had a very clear and lucid reason for killing 168 people. He was a horrible person but, again, he wasn't suffering from a mental illness.
The Columbine killers? Not insane. The Boston Marathon bombers? Not insane. Dylann Roof, perpetrator of the South Carolina church massacre? Not insane.
Yes, some killers are insane. But mostly, this whole "They must be crazy!" spiel is just something people tell themselves to feel better. They don't want to face the reality that some perfectly sane people kill for perfectly sane, albeit horrible, reasons. But just be aware that refusing to face reality makes it harder to deal with that reality. The best way to make sure nothing is done about mass-murderers is to stick your head in the sand and make up feel-good reasons for why they did what they did rather than addressing the actual issue.
Stop making excuses.
Very well said, and unfortunately I couldn't rep you. Genuinely "insane" people don't generally have the mental wherewithal to perpetrate such calculated acts of evil.
The 09/11 attackers weren't insane. They committed a very deliberate act with clear goals in mind. This made this indescribably horrible people - but not insane.
Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bombers, wasn't insane. He had a very clear and lucid reason for killing 168 people. He was a horrible person but, again, he wasn't suffering from a mental illness.
The Columbine killers? Not insane. The Boston Marathon bombers? Not insane. Dylann Roof, perpetrator of the South Carolina church massacre? Not insane.
Yes, some killers are insane. But mostly, this whole "They must be crazy!" spiel is just something people tell themselves to feel better. They don't want to face the reality that some perfectly sane people kill for perfectly sane, albeit horrible, reasons. But just be aware that refusing to face reality makes it harder to deal with that reality. The best way to make sure nothing is done about mass-murderers is to stick your head in the sand and make up feel-good reasons for why they did what they did rather than addressing the actual issue.
I'm appalled at most of the news stories circulating about this tragic event. I personally listened to eight hours of scanner feed as the events unfolded, and nearly every news article I read is filled with inaccuracies and speculation. Where is the actual journalism? Megan Kelly, a supposed journalist, posts a completely asinine piece on her personal blog questioning the man's gender because his Colorado Voter ID lists him as a woman, and the Internet explodes with crazy. It's in all likelihood a data entry error, but you'd never know that from the way it's presented. There is little journalistic integrity any longer. The talking heads are professional propagandists out for ratings, because many Americans have diminishing amounts of common sense and easily buy into this nonsense. It's disgusting!
Last edited by randomparent; 11-30-2015 at 09:17 AM..
Here we go again, trying to find reason when there is none. This guy was crazy. He should have been locked away in a mental institution long ago. Instead we got rid of those, and now people who are factually insane walk our streets, and all the public can do is wait for them to kill someone to finally get locked away. But no, we are going to blame the gun, blame religion, blame youtube videos.
Fact #1, people in the community that new this guy said he was "off", wouldn't make eye contact, and walked around mumbling.
Fact #2, Law enforcement has stated that the suspect rambled on and on in the interview room and most was incoherent. They are trying to break down what he said.
Fact #3, If he really wanted to stop abortion, why would he shoot the patients and not target the Dr. and medical staff.
When I lived in Florida, there was a guy who walked around all day and pretended to be the karate kid. He seemed harmless. Then one day a security guard asked him to get off of our buildings property because he was in the tree planters doing crane kicks. He picked up a rock and smashed the guard in the head. Then he went back to his routine of doing crane kicks. When the cops got there, it took 4 grown men and countless uses of the tazer to get the guy in cuffs. I'm certain he is probably back out on the streets.
If the crazy excuse was used across the board I would be more incline to agree with you however, that excuse appears to be reserved only for a certain demographic. Imagine if African American men and boys were committing mass shootings month after month, year after year. Articles and interviews would flood the media, and we’d have political debates demanding that African Americans be “held accountable.†Americans demand racial accountability — except when the criminals are white.
The 09/11 attackers weren't insane. They committed a very deliberate act with clear goals in mind. This made this indescribably horrible people - but not insane.
Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bombers, wasn't insane. He had a very clear and lucid reason for killing 168 people. He was a horrible person but, again, he wasn't suffering from a mental illness.
The Columbine killers? Not insane. The Boston Marathon bombers? Not insane. Dylann Roof, perpetrator of the South Carolina church massacre? Not insane.
Yes, some killers are insane. But mostly, this whole "They must be crazy!" spiel is just something people tell themselves to feel better. They don't want to face the reality that some perfectly sane people kill for perfectly sane, albeit horrible, reasons. But just be aware that refusing to face reality makes it harder to deal with that reality. The best way to make sure nothing is done about mass-murderers is to stick your head in the sand and make up feel-good reasons for why they did what they did rather than addressing the actual issue.
Stop making excuses.
^^^ Excellent post.
Radical Christians are no different than Radical Muslims, no matter how a person tries to deny it.
Richard Colvin Reid was an employee of al-Qaeda. He was part of a two man team that was supposed to blow up random planes over the Atlantic. (The other guy chickened out and was eventually arrested in England.) AQ being a terrorist group, i'd call him a terrorist.
I'm appalled at most of the news stories circulating about this tragic event. I personally listened to eight hours of scanner feed as the events unfolded, and nearly every news article I read is filled with inaccuracies and speculation. Where is the actual journalism? Megan Kelly, a supposed journalist, posts a completely asinine piece on her personal blog questioning the man's gender because his Colorado Voter ID lists him as a woman, and the Internet explodes with crazy. It's in all likelihood a data entry error, but you'd never know that from the way it's presented. There is little journalistic integrity any longer. The talking heads are professional propagandists out for ratings, because many Americans have diminishing amounts of common sense and easily buy into this nonsense. It's disgusting!
According to Sen. Raffy Cruz, the shooter is a transgender lefty activist. You can't make this up.
The 09/11 attackers weren't insane. They committed a very deliberate act with clear goals in mind. This made this indescribably horrible people - but not insane.
Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bombers, wasn't insane. He had a very clear and lucid reason for killing 168 people. He was a horrible person but, again, he wasn't suffering from a mental illness.
The Columbine killers? Not insane. The Boston Marathon bombers? Not insane. Dylann Roof, perpetrator of the South Carolina church massacre? Not insane.
Yes, some killers are insane. But mostly, this whole "They must be crazy!" spiel is just something people tell themselves to feel better. They don't want to face the reality that some perfectly sane people kill for perfectly sane, albeit horrible, reasons. But just be aware that refusing to face reality makes it harder to deal with that reality. The best way to make sure nothing is done about mass-murderers is to stick your head in the sand and make up feel-good reasons for why they did what they did rather than addressing the actual issue.
Stop making excuses.
I agree with your examples, but some people really are just crazy. And I do not think that "crazy" necessarily means that one should not be accountable for his own actions, I do think that being crazy can excuse a crime depending on the circumstances. From what I have heard (mainly rumors) regarding this case, this guy appeared to be "somewhat crazy" in that his neighbors thought he was nuts, he built a metal roof to stop the government, and he was rambling to police during and after the shooting.
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