Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So what you're implying is that it's not the owner's fault for the killer dog. Then we should all be entitled to carry guns and shoot these rabid dogs but we can't. We're letting mishaving animals out on the loose and the owner is carefree about letting this happen.
No, what I am implying is that I don't see intent for murder, the owner did not personally attack the kid or sig his dogs on the kid, and the owner was not there during the attack - intent is something the prosecutor will have to prove at trial, and a third party (the dogs) did the attack.
Reckless endangerment DOES imply the owner is at fault, and will guarantee some amount of jail time. As I stated, I think that charge and a couple years jail time are appropriate based on the limited info in the reports.
And the guy has several priors for an assortment of criminal activities, so this isn't a guy I would want as a neighbor, even without his dogs.
Last edited by Tuck's Dad; 12-07-2015 at 03:34 PM..
I have really mixed feelings about a manslaughter charge. Think this is prosecutorial overreach, and will at best be plead down significantly.
He should be charged with reckless endangerment, or something along those lines, because that is actually what he is guilty of that can be proven in court, and he should do a few years jail time (perhaps the max allowed for those charges) - not probation or community service.
Also, why would you file a civil "civil rights violation" lawsuit in these circumstances? That seems weird to me...
Perhaps they are thinking the second degree murder charge will be plead down to manslaughter.
That does me good to know that owners of these stupid dogs can now face jail time. It might prevent the whole "look at me, look at my pitbull, Im tough" crowd from buying these dogs in the future.
Hopefully he will be convicted. There needs to be some sort of consequence for being negligent with dangerous dogs. To me this is no different than if the guy had run this kid down while driving drunk. You make stupid choices that result in loss of life there should be charges.
This child died a horrific death. One that was easily prevented. I can't imagine the loss and trauma his mom is going through.
As a Pit Bull owner I also personally despise people like this guy! He showed no regard for anyone's safety, other articles mention the dogs were known to be aggressive and he left them unsupervised in an unsecure fence. This was bound to happen one day.
Murder conviction
This one also references the Whipple case in which the owners were convicted of manslaughter and 2nd degree murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307
And people STILL pretend it's all about how you treat these dogs. It helps them, I guess, to believe that they have some sort of "power" which will make wild dogs tame. Or perhaps they believe that they, the owners, are "strong" enough to lead Pit Bulls.
Nonsense. Pit Bulls - and some others - simply cannot be trusted. We have a friend who has a scarred up face from a Pit Bull they had owned for 10 years. 10 years without and incident, and then one day.....
Uh no, no...not sure how one even comes to that conclusion. The story doesn't give all the details, there are others with more but the situation is pretty clear. A pack of aggressive Pit Bulls escaped and killed someone. I think this supports the idea that it is important how Pit Bulls are bred and raised. If you keep poorly bred, probably zero socialization or positive human interaction, aggressive Pit Bulls together in an easily escaped backyard they are probably going to kill someone. In reality this has been seen in other breeds (and mutts) packing up attacking people and animals. It isn't just with Pit Bulls.
I do not wish to attempt to "tame"raised or control wild dogs. If these dogs came at me or my children and I was armed I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them. If I were a neighbor I'd have done as much as I could to eradicate these dogs. Dangerous dog laws need to be in place. That way dogs like this if you have them need to be kept under restriction to prevent attacks or put to sleep before they can kill. Too many times, Pits or any aggressive dog has complaint against them but nothing was done. Then again this is Detroit, never been, never want to go but the whole city seems like a Ghetto. What I've seen on animal cops the dog situation is horrible especially when it comes to Pit Bulls. Their ACOs are also some of the most ignorant when it comes to dogs.
As for your friend that's unfortunate, can you elaborate? That isn't typical Pit Bull behavior but it's behavior I've heard of in other dogs. Older age dogs can be suffering from unknown health problems/pain that cause them to lash out. Owners of various breeds have reported this. Dogs typically hide pain from us, it's their nature and Pit Bulls are particularly stoic and usually handle it without such an incident but any dog could bite in that situation. Owners find out they are ill, cancer being the main culprit, other times thyroid function goes off in an older animal leading to this behavior. Even seen dogs that start to lose vision with age growl or bite people and no longer get along with other dogs (these were not Pits btw). None of my old age Pits have had such issues even when suffering from cancer but it's not impossible. Of course their dog could have had some other issue, maybe that dog was fine too and then this incident out of the blue, but I'm not betting on it. Don't know how many times I've seen all different breeds of dogs show warning signs and owners don't realize it or make excuses until there is finally an incident. This is both with people being bit and dogs biting / attacking other dogs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega
Its their instinct to attack, bread into them for a thousand years. My Border Collies instinct is to heard sheep. Any kid on a skateboard, scooter or small bicycle he just go's nuts.
Are you talking about Pit Bulls here...because they have been in existence for 150yrs or so. They are a modern breed. This is certainly more than enough time to cement traits, including genes related to aggression. Though they were only bred / used for actual attack purposes for the last 30-40yr. This by undesirable groups of people who became interested and popularity gained amongst them. In some instances they were actually bred with larger guardian types creating a more dangerous human aggressive dog.
But that's not what we saw in this instance. We saw a pack of dogs with predator behavior. This is not typical for Pit Bulls or any other breed of dog (including prey or defense driven breeds). These dogs had predatory pack behavior which can be extremely dangerous to deal with. They grabbed the child away the mom like he was prey, drug him off and killed him. Like he was a prey animal. This is behavior we don't usually observe in dogs but unfortunately it is something observed in packs of dogs. These issues have been seen in packs with various breeds and mutts. Dog packs have even mauled adults, it's not just children they will always go for. Some years back a group of mutts was going after kids, attacking people and also managed to kill animals at the city zoo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid
Were they pitbulls? I mean AKC registered Pits or just the average street mutt that people always make the mistake of calling them pitbulls.
Pit Bulls are not registered with the AKC. There is a picture of a dog if you click the link. Looks like a Pit Bull to me. Probably poorly bred and clearly improperly kept but Pit Bull none the less. Despite misidentification issues or bully mutts claimed to be Pits genuine Pit Bulls do attack people at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
Dogs left to pack up will do the unthinkable. Our country suffers from overbreeding the cute pit bull or producing the next fighting dog.
Pretty much. It is different then merely owning multiple Pit Bulls or multiple dogs. When left to their own devices and little human interaction you can have some seriously dangerous dogs on your hands. Whether they are a group of strays or in someone's yard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyBinkies
Excellent post. My guess is that the dogs WERE being fought, or were trained to attack. Or both.
We have many pit bulls in my neighbrhood, 2 of them right here in the building I live in. I've never heard of a single pit bull attack in my neighborhood. But then again none of the ones around here are used as fighting dogs, they all appear to be pampered pets, as it should be . And it shows in their behavior.
Seriously? Yeah that's completely logical. Pet bulls can't always be trusted alone together, let alone fighting dogs. They'd be too busy killing each other to ever make it out of the yard to kill a child. Fighting dogs that lived together, unsupervised in a backyard, maybe unicorns exist too.
It is hard to say if human aggression was encouraged or not. We will probably never know. As I and others have mention pack mentality dogs can be dangerous.
Hopefully he will be convicted. There needs to be some sort of consequence for being negligent with dangerous dogs. To me this is no different than if the guy had run this kid down while driving drunk. You make stupid choices that result in loss of life there should be charges.
This child died a horrific death. One that was easily prevented. I can't imagine the loss and trauma his mom is going through.
As a Pit Bull owner I also personally despise people like this guy! He showed no regard for anyone's safety, other articles mention the dogs were known to be aggressive and he left them unsupervised in an unsecure fence. This was bound to happen one day.
Murder conviction
This one also references the Whipple case in which the owners were convicted of manslaughter and 2nd degree murder.
Uh no, no...not sure how one even comes to that conclusion. The story doesn't give all the details, there are others with more but the situation is pretty clear. A pack of aggressive Pit Bulls escaped and killed someone. I think this supports the idea that it is important how Pit Bulls are bred and raised. If you keep poorly bred, probably zero socialization or positive human interaction, aggressive Pit Bulls together in an easily escaped backyard they are probably going to kill someone. In reality this has been seen in other breeds (and mutts) packing up attacking people and animals. It isn't just with Pit Bulls.
I do not wish to attempt to "tame"raised or control wild dogs. If these dogs came at me or my children and I was armed I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them. If I were a neighbor I'd have done as much as I could to eradicate these dogs. Dangerous dog laws need to be in place. That way dogs like this if you have them need to be kept under restriction to prevent attacks or put to sleep before they can kill. Too many times, Pits or any aggressive dog has complaint against them but nothing was done. Then again this is Detroit, never been, never want to go but the whole city seems like a Ghetto. What I've seen on animal cops the dog situation is horrible especially when it comes to Pit Bulls. Their ACOs are also some of the most ignorant when it comes to dogs.
As for your friend that's unfortunate, can you elaborate? That isn't typical Pit Bull behavior but it's behavior I've heard of in other dogs. Older age dogs can be suffering from unknown health problems/pain that cause them to lash out. Owners of various breeds have reported this. Dogs typically hide pain from us, it's their nature and Pit Bulls are particularly stoic and usually handle it without such an incident but any dog could bite in that situation. Owners find out they are ill, cancer being the main culprit, other times thyroid function goes off in an older animal leading to this behavior. Even seen dogs that start to lose vision with age growl or bite people and no longer get along with other dogs (these were not Pits btw). None of my old age Pits have had such issues even when suffering from cancer but it's not impossible. Of course their dog could have had some other issue, maybe that dog was fine too and then this incident out of the blue, but I'm not betting on it. Don't know how many times I've seen all different breeds of dogs show warning signs and owners don't realize it or make excuses until there is finally an incident. This is both with people being bit and dogs biting / attacking other dogs.
Are you talking about Pit Bulls here...because they have been in existence for 150yrs or so. They are a modern breed. This is certainly more than enough time to cement traits, including genes related to aggression. Though they were only bred / used for actual attack purposes for the last 30-40yr. This by undesirable groups of people who became interested and popularity gained amongst them. In some instances they were actually bred with larger guardian types creating a more dangerous human aggressive dog.
But that's not what we saw in this instance. We saw a pack of dogs with predator behavior. This is not typical for Pit Bulls or any other breed of dog (including prey or defense driven breeds). These dogs had predatory pack behavior which can be extremely dangerous to deal with. They grabbed the child away the mom like he was prey, drug him off and killed him. Like he was a prey animal. This is behavior we don't usually observe in dogs but unfortunately it is something observed in packs of dogs. These issues have been seen in packs with various breeds and mutts. Dog packs have even mauled adults, it's not just children they will always go for. Some years back a group of mutts was going after kids, attacking people and also managed to kill animals at the city zoo.
Pit Bulls are not registered with the AKC. There is a picture of a dog if you click the link. Looks like a Pit Bull to me. Probably poorly bred and clearly improperly kept but Pit Bull none the less. Despite misidentification issues or bully mutts claimed to be Pits genuine Pit Bulls do attack people at times.
Pretty much. It is different then merely owning multiple Pit Bulls or multiple dogs. When left to their own devices and little human interaction you can have some seriously dangerous dogs on your hands. Whether they are a group of strays or in someone's yard.
Seriously? Yeah that's completely logical. Pet bulls can't always be trusted alone together, let alone fighting dogs. They'd be too busy killing each other to ever make it out of the yard to kill a child. Fighting dogs that lived together, unsupervised in a backyard, maybe unicorns exist too.
It is hard to say if human aggression was encouraged or not. We will probably never know. As I and others have mention pack mentality dogs can be dangerous.
My point is this: Read the above article, and then look at all of the dogs they have listed as Pitbulls. Turns out, only one of the dogs is "Mostly Pit" and the rest have little or no Pitbull DNA in them at all, and yet they are routinely called Pitbulls, if one of the dogs in the article were to maul someone, best believe the next day it would be on the news as a Pitbull attack.
So even if he's convicted there's likely to be no change, further dog ownership and further attacks. Maybe more dead people, and definitely more dead dogs who might have a shot at a decent life if they had had decent owners. Swell.
Could be. They (the DA) might be looking for a plea deal that includes a decent amount of jail time by charging murder at the outset.
I'm good with the murder charge. The guy knew the dogs could get out. He knew they were dangerous. He kept them together as a pack. It was only a matter of time before someone got killed.
Pit Bulls are not registered with the AKC. There is a picture of a dog if you click the link. Looks like a Pit Bull to me. Probably poorly bred and clearly improperly kept but Pit Bull none the less. Despite misidentification issues or bully mutts claimed to be Pits genuine Pit Bulls do attack people at times.
I saw the picture too. I tried to find the credit/source for the photo and couldn't, but suspect that is a AP file photo, not a picture of one of the actual dogs involved in the attack.
At least the picture was of an actual pit bull...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Uh no, no...not sure how one even comes to that conclusion. The story doesn't give all the details, there are others with more but the situation is pretty clear. A pack of aggressive Pit Bulls escaped and killed someone. I think this supports the idea that it is important how Pit Bulls are bred and raised. If you keep poorly bred, probably zero socialization or positive human interaction, aggressive Pit Bulls together in an easily escaped backyard they are probably going to kill someone. In reality this has been seen in other breeds (and mutts) packing up attacking people and animals. It isn't just with Pit Bulls. 
. And it shows in their behavior.
