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As for the idea that in at the rare schools in which saying it is optional, objectioning students can just forego it and sit while the others participate, OP has the fantasy that pushy students don't bully, pressure, or make fun of others who don't act exactly like them So how many students who don't agree with the Pledge and don't want to participate will really forego participating and stay seated?
Well, we never made fun of kids for that in my school. I don't see why it's worthy of making fun of. Some kids wouldn't say it, some kids would, and that was the end of it. It was simple.
You still don't know who is offended? The people who are offended are: 1) immigrants to this country who refuse to assimilate, and don't like America, and 2) American liberals who think these people will assimilate if we take away our offensive holidays, thus making our country more likable.
And if you still don't know who is offended, I'll give you a hint. It is those who belong to the religion of peace.
Not every thing has to do with Muslims.
I don't recall if I had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance when I was in elementary school. This just seems to be an odd assortment of things to ban- maybe she wasn't there for Halloween and was planning to get rid of more in the coming year.
I couldn't disagree more. The point of the Pledge is to verbalize that you (the general "you" who is saying the Pledge) are a part of something larger; that you belong to the United States and that you are loyal to your nation; that no other nation has a greater claim on your heart. And it's a helpful reminder of the things for which this country stands, and by extension you yourself should stand: that we are one united nation, under the grace and protection of God (note that this can be interpreted to mean a supernatural power greater than ones self, not specifically the Christian deity); that we cannot be broken up; and that we offer liberty and justice to everyone.
In a way, it's like telling your spouse that you love them. Sure, you could only do it on your wedding day, using the logic that once it's been stated, you don't need to keep reminding them. But I don't know too many people who would be satisfied with that. And besides, merely saying the words is a helpful way to refresh the feeling of being in love with each other and sharing a union with each other.
And as for people who aren't citizens of this country? If they're here on a short-term basis, then I agree that they shouldn't pledge allegiance to a country that is not their own; but they should stand as a sign of respect to the country that is hosting them. (I have no allegiance whatsoever to the Queen of England; but if she were to walk into the room, I would stand as a sign of respect for someone who is the titular leader of a nation.) And for the immigrants who are supposedly here for the long haul? Either become American and pledge your allegiance, or go back to where you came from.
As for the topic of this thread, I'm glad that sanity prevailed and that nutjob principal got put in her place. I am so sick and tired of people trying to stamp out the customs and traditions of this country, just because someone from some other country (or some other culture within this country) might possibly not like it.
^^^this post bears repeating.
My thoughts exactly but bus man expressed it better than I could.
As far a Christmas, its a secular holiday.
Thanksgiving, also secular. Who doesn't celebrate that. Maybe the Native Americans.
Buts its about being thankful and being with family and friends and a couple days off school.
Meh, given the location of the school, it is probably mostly Asian and Hispanic. If you go a neighborhood over where there are a lot of Muslims, you will find no such bans.
Back in the early 70's when I was in school I remember the first Muslim family that moved to our school zone. I didn't even know what a Muslim was, but our principle banned our traditional nativity Christmas play due to that families religion. One Muslim family vs. 1000 American majority Christian families.
^^^this post bears repeating.
My thoughts exactly but bus man expressed it better than I could.
As far a Christmas, its a secular holiday.
Thanksgiving, also secular. Who doesn't celebrate that. Maybe the Native Americans.
Buts its about being thankful and being with family and friends and a couple days off school.
No, it is a religious holiday that has been commercialized because of capitalism and materialism in this country. I really don't like when people try to dilute Christmas as less than religious. It is a religious holiday that has been changed with time to allow anyone to celebrate it, right or wrong, but it is still important for those who believe in Christ and are Christians... you know, the holiday's namesake.
The holiday is not technically secular but symbols for the holiday have become more secular with time - like Santa, and Christmas trees - only because nonreligious people wanted in and started celebrating it, too. This is fine with me as long as we give credit where it's due - there are millions of people who go to church on Christmas and celebrate the birth of Jesus. Many of those people also go to church weekly and would consider themselves devout Christians. This is their/our holiday. I don't care who else celebrates it as long as we can always recognize that it IS actually a religious holiday, and give that respect.
Back in the early 70's when I was in school I remember the first Muslim family that moved to our school zone. I didn't even know what a Muslim was, but our principle banned our traditional nativity Christmas play due to that families religion. One Muslim family vs. 1000 American majority Christian families.
Good for the principal. Assuming you went to a public school, you shouldn't be having nativity plays. Why? Because they are religious, and public schools are strictly prohibited from promoting religion. It's that pesky principle called "Separation of Church and State." Besides, you've fallen into the common mental trap of believing that majority rules. Although John Stuart Mill was partially correct, "the greatest good for the greatest number" is something one should consider, it's not a diehard rule which should be followed to the extent of oppressing a minority. Thus, the Civil Rights movement, abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, and other important human rights movements occurred, in which majority rule was overturned for the good of both the minority populations, and humanity at large.
No, it is a religious holiday that has been commercialized because of capitalism and materialism in this country. I really don't like when people try to dilute Christmas as less than religious. It is a religious holiday that has been changed with time to allow anyone to celebrate it, right or wrong, but it is still important for those who believe in Christ and are Christians... you know, the holiday's namesake.
The holiday is not technically secular but symbols for the holiday have become more secular with time - like Santa, and Christmas trees - only because nonreligious people wanted in and started celebrating it, too. This is fine with me as long as we give credit where it's due - there are millions of people who go to church on Christmas and celebrate the birth of Jesus. Many of those people also go to church weekly and would consider themselves devout Christians. This is their/our holiday. I don't care who else celebrates it as long as we can always recognize that it IS actually a religious holiday, and give that respect.
I was under the impression governments could not observe religious holidays without somehow declaring a secular reason. I could be wrong.
Awesome. I hope that lady feels like an utter toolbag. You cant take away traditions without backlash. And backlash was served to her, cold. Do you want some water with that rejection, sweetheart?
Not a chance. Progressives have absolutely no conscience whatsoever. She'll probably get promoted.
No, it is a religious holiday that has been commercialized because of capitalism and materialism in this country. I really don't like when people try to dilute Christmas as less than religious. It is a religious holiday that has been changed with time to allow anyone to celebrate it, right or wrong, but it is still important for those who believe in Christ and are Christians... you know, the holiday's namesake.
The holiday is not technically secular but symbols for the holiday have become more secular with time - like Santa, and Christmas trees - only because nonreligious people wanted in and started celebrating it, too. This is fine with me as long as we give credit where it's due - there are millions of people who go to church on Christmas and celebrate the birth of Jesus. Many of those people also go to church weekly and would consider themselves devout Christians. This is their/our holiday. I don't care who else celebrates it as long as we can always recognize that it IS actually a religious holiday, and give that respect.
Yes, it's origins are a weeklong celebration of the god Saturn that occurred during the Roman Empire.
Pagan celebration.
Jesus was actually born sometime in September.
Pope Julius I moved his birth date to December 25 (about 350AD) because of all the other pagan celebrations going on all over the world in hopes that more people would convert to christianity.
I was under the impression governments could not observe religious holidays without somehow declaring a secular reason. I could be wrong.
I never heard that, but regardless of what the government says, Christmas is a religious holiday celebrated by Christians. Anyone's free to celebrate it just as I'm free to buy a Menorah and open one present a night for 8 nights, but it doesn't make me a Jewish person celebrating my religion. It makes me someone who wants to celebrate Hannukah - which is exactly why many people celebrate Christmas. Just because. But for Christians, it's the second most important holiday. The first is Easter, another holiday a lot of non-Christians celebrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Yes, it's origins are a weeklong celebration of the god Saturn that occurred during the Roman Empire.
Pagan celebration.
Jesus was actually born sometime in September.
Pope Julius I moved his birth date to December 25 (about 350AD) because of all the other pagan celebrations going on all over the world in hopes that more people would convert to christianity.
Today, Christmas is celebrated December 25, and has been for hundreds if not thousands of years, and it is a religious holiday for Christians.
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So how many students who don't agree with the Pledge and don't want to participate will really forego participating and stay seated?
Well, we never made fun of kids for that in my school. I don't see why it's worthy of making fun of. Some kids wouldn't say it, some kids would, and that was the end of it. It was simple.
