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Tell you what, they come to school during Christian hollidaysmor our kids get out of school during theirs....last time I checked, the Jews got both.....message to the Jewish mom? Shaaadddup....
What is this? What country did this 'Christian hollidaysmor (?) originate in?
Koale
The board didn't "cave" - they are the ones who chose to cancel the field trip. The mom didn't ask for it to be canceled, she simply let the school know she had a concern.
But clearly some people think she wasn't entitled to express that concern, and being in a the minority, she was supposed to just keep her mouth shut and go along with what the majority preferred.
Do you like the words 'backed down so quickly' used in the other post rather than 'caved,' fine. Either way, this little trip wasn't worth the board getting mired in a controversy over inclusiveness.
Do you like the words 'backed down so quickly' used in the other post rather than 'caved,' fine. Either way, this little trip wasn't worth the board getting mired in a controversy over inclusiveness.
The point was that the mom did not ask for the trip to be canceled, it was the board and superintendent who made that decision. Presumably because they actually believed that inclusiveness in a public school was a good thing. Not because they had to back down or cave from the position of having denied a request that was never made in the first place.
I don't know how, after all this discussion, you can still say Santa isn't a Christian symbol. As has been pointed out, when a child gets into Santa's lap, Santa asks them their name (usually) and then "what do you want for Christmas, Mary/Johnny?" It's tied to a Christian religious celebration. No one has said Santa is "satanic". That secular Christians "do" Santa even if they don't go to church is irrelevant.
Maybe because I was brought up in a Christian church. We never had Santa as a Christian symbol. No one I have ever known has had Santa as a Christian symbol, the fish, the cross, the nativity, Jesus, angles, God, never Santa. No one ever made a connection between Santa and God.
If Santa was a religious symbol his image would be banned from government offices, businesses displaying his image would be attacked and boycotted. There would be some proof of Santa in the Bible, in religious teachings. I dont know how you can keep insisting Santa, a myth created from many, many different origins and cultures and designed by the Coke a Cola Company is a religious symbol.
The fact that Christmas has become secular, that non-Christians celebrate Christmas with Santa, gifts, reindeer, etc. is very relevant. That is separate from the Christian religious celebration. The fact that Constantine fused pagan symbols and celebrations with his conversion to Christianity and that those pagan symbols are celebrated by the majority of people, religious or not, is relevant when your arguing these activities are of a religious nature.
If students were going to a church, going to see a nativity, or wise men, or Jesus, then yes that would be a Christian religious celebration.
Just for your clarification I did not say santa was satanic.
What is the one thing Santa asks every kid? "And what do YOU want for Christmas?" Christmas is a religious holiday, so if Santa addresses it, he is addressing religion and making the trip religious. As a Jewish child, I would have had to say "We don't celebrate Christmas" which would only confuse Santa and make me feel weird and different. It doesn't belong in school.
Pssst. There is no Santa. Come on say it. There is NO Santa.
Its some guy dressed in a funny suit trying to make extra money. Sometimes its a guy dressed in a funny suit ringing a bell asking for donations.
A random stranger asking what you want for Christmas does not a religion make.
The point was that the mom did not ask for the trip to be canceled, it was the board and superintendent who made that decision. Presumably because they actually believed that inclusiveness in a public school was a good thing. Not because they had to back down or cave from the position of having denied a request that was never made in the first place.
For all practical purposes, the mother did want the trip cancelled if Santa was at the café. The so-called 'compromise' was going to the café for hot chocolate only if Santa wasn't there.
"Inclusiveness" is fine and dandy. In 20, 25 years, 'Inclusiveness' might be a religion of its own. I agree with the mother, seeing Santa shouldn't be the centerpiece of a school trip.
Pssst. There is no Santa. Come on say it. There is NO Santa.
Its some guy dressed in a funny suit trying to make extra money. Sometimes its a guy dressed in a funny suit ringing a bell asking for donations.
A random stranger asking what you want for Christmas does not a religion make.
It's enough to make a 5 year old feel embarrassed and different and puts him into a position to have to explain why he doesn't celebrate Christmas, or to stand in the back and not be allowed to participate if his parents do find it inappropriate (as I said earlier, my stepfather would never have allowed it). If you find it so hard to believe why a mom would not want her child in that position, I don't know what to tell you.
It's enough to make a 5 year old feel embarrassed and different and puts him into a position to have to explain why he doesn't celebrate Christmas, or to stand in the back and not be allowed to participate if his parents do find it inappropriate (as I said earlier, my stepfather would never have allowed it). If you find it so hard to believe why a mom would not want her child in that position, I don't know what to tell you.
Really, you think a 5 year old is going to be embarrassed and put in a position to explain?
Its the mother who is making it awkward and putting her kid "in a position".
There were plenty other options, she could have just let her kid stay at school, the kid did not have to sit on Santa's lap, he did not have to write to Santa, he could have gone and sipped hot chocolate or stayed at school. She could have suggested other activities or a trip encompassing her religion. Another parent said that the school had a guest speaker talk about Hanukkah.
What I find hard to believe is the way this entire thing was handled. Santa is not a religious figure. Christmas celebrations are more secular than religious. If this mother objected she should have kept her child out of it and not caused all the children to lose their trip. The matter should have gone to the board and been discussed with parents to work to change future holiday activities.
And the mom did complain.
Quote:
After she wrote letters, voiced her concern at a Dec. 1 school board meeting and met with the school superintendent, it was decided, out of fairness, the field trip to Big E Café on Branham Lane would be canceled.
I'm not sure how that was fair.
Quote:
Before the field trip was officially canceled, Talia had worked out a compromise with the school to write "thank you" letters to the coffee shop owner, instead of writing Santa, and walking to the café to drink hot chocolate, as long as Santa showed up after school hours for parents to visit on their own. She signed a permission slip for her daughter to attend.
Quote:
a Jewish mother, who identified herself only as Talia, complained to the school board that the district was celebrating one religion over others.
Quote:
Talia's emails suggest that she believes having the entire class meet with or write to Santa would beunfair to those children who may see him as a symbol of a Christian holiday they don't believe in. "I realize that you don't know how it feels, but I do because I lived it," Talia wrote to Scott. "Maybe you should ask around. Speak to the nanny of the girl from Ms. Kay's class who grew up a Jehovah's Witness, or a religious Christian who finds the secular Christmas offensive, or a Muslim. Let the classroom be the one safe place where everyone feels included."
IDK but some of her statements seem to contradict her claim that her protest was because other religions didnt get equal face time.
During school hours where kids are being taken out of the classroom at the cost of tax payers? Yes, it is very inappropriate.
How much of your tax dollars were spent on these kids taking one hour to walk to a cafe?
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