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Old 12-30-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Yes but were are not talking about imposing a religion. We are talking about a 10 year tradition of seeing Santa Clause. There is a difference.
Not everything we do is specified under the Constitution. If we did not have a majority rule in this country we would not have these things called elections, voting, and referendums.
In other words, a 10 year tradition of celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ by a publicly funded school trip. Which is how most non-Christians and deeply religious Christians see Christmas.

And the problem here is not that kids are going to celebrate Christmas with their friends. By all means, it's great. The problem is that it's being done as part of regular school week, and every child, Christian or not, is being forced to either join in, or publicly separate themselves from the rest. And - from what we know - they didn't do the same for every other religion represented in school. Not nearly on the same order of magnitude.

And they really shouldn't do this for every religion. This would open an even biggest can of worms. They could just have a nice trip to eat some cookies and drink vanilla milk, with no religious overtones whatsoever. If parents want their kids to see Santa, or spin a dreidel, or make beads for Ramadan, or join in a Satanic-themed play, do that in their own damn time or enroll your kids in a private religious school.

 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,297 posts, read 7,876,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njmom66 View Post
Sort of off subject, maybe not... as a Catholic school kid, I always wondered, why aren't there schools for Jewish faith children?

Or are there and I never knew?
There are, in areas with a large Jewish population like New York City.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
But what?

I posted a picture of a Jewish Santa. Does that mean Santa is Jewish?
Is the Crusifix a Christian symbol ? Because I can dig up a photo of nearly anyone with it.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
There are, in areas with a large Jewish population like New York City.
There are Jewish religious schools in most all large cities.

However, the majority of American Jews are not that religious and want their kids to have the same experience growing up as everyone else.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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By the way, to whomever started throwing around statistics.

There's only 25% of Catholics in the US. They certainly have far more impact and visibility than their numbers suggest.

There's just under 20% of people unaffiliated with any church, almost as many as there are Catholics.

Should we even go there ?
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:09 AM
 
35,911 posts, read 30,458,873 times
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[quote=Ummagumma;42448475]
Quote:
In other words, a 10 year tradition of celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ by a publicly funded school trip. Which is how most non-Christians and deeply religious Christians see Christmas.
No a 10 year tradition of walking to the cafe to sip hot chocolate and sit on santas lap if you want.

Quote:
And the problem here is not that kids are going to celebrate Christmas with their friends. By all means, it's great. The problem is that it's being done as part of regular school week, and every child, Christian or not, is being forced to either join in, or publicly separate themselves from the rest. And - from what we know - they didn't do the same for every other religion represented in school. Not nearly on the same order of magnitude.
Its a field trip, not every child is being forced to join in. Kids skip out on school activities and field trips all the time. I dont see the big deal, either you want to participate or you dont. If you have convictions that prevent you allowing your child to participate in anything be it a trip to see Santa, football, watching movies, eating meat in the school cafeteria, that is something you choose an if you have to be odd man out, deal with it privately and dont try to make everyone else conform to your convictions.

Is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?


Quote:
And they really shouldn't do this for every religion. This would open an even biggest can of worms. They could just have a nice trip to eat some cookies and drink vanilla milk, with no religious overtones whatsoever. If parents want their kids to see Santa, or spin a dreidel, or make beads for Ramadan, or join in a Satanic-themed play, do that in their own damn time or enroll your kids in a private religious school.
I agree there is no need to celebrate any religious holidays but Ill ask again, is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?

Remove Christmas as a federal holiday and then lets talk about removing it from schools as a religious holiday. That distinction needs to be drawn. If Christmas is a religious holiday remove all aspects of it from government institutions and non Christians STOP celebrating it.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:13 AM
 
35,911 posts, read 30,458,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Is the Crusifix a Christian symbol ? Because I can dig up a photo of nearly anyone with it.
Exactly my point.
A couple posters are posting links like fake Santa doing storytime in a church and nativity with Santa bowing to baby Jesus as PROOF that Santa is a religious figure. So I posted a picture of a Jewish Santa actually think its Hanukkah Harry. So does that mean because there is a picture of a Jewish Santa, Santa is a Jewish religious symbol. OK.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,277,747 times
Reputation: 4545
[quote=2mares;42448686]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
No a 10 year tradition of walking to the cafe to sip hot chocolate and sit on santas lap if you want.

Its a field trip, not every child is being forced to join in. Kids skip out on school activities and field trips all the time. I dont see the big deal, either you want to participate or you dont. If you have convictions that prevent you allowing your child to participate in anything be it a trip to see Santa, football, watching movies, eating meat in the school cafeteria, that is something you choose an if you have to be odd man out, deal with it privately and dont try to make everyone else conform to your convictions.

Is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?



I agree there is no need to celebrate any religious holidays but Ill ask again, is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?

Remove Christmas as a federal holiday and then lets talk about removing it from schools as a religious holiday. That distinction needs to be drawn. If Christmas is a religious holiday remove all aspects of it from government institutions and non Christians STOP celebrating it.
AFAIK the non-Christians mainly use Christmas holiday to celebrate the New Year. Seeing how the two mainly overlap.

If you want to make an example of a perfect holiday that may have had religious roots but is now widely seen as non-religious, it's Halloween. By all means, let the schools concentrate on that.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:16 AM
 
35,911 posts, read 30,458,873 times
Reputation: 32154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
There are Jewish religious schools in most all large cities.

However, the majority of American Jews are not that religious and want their kids to have the same experience growing up as everyone else.

You know that statement is contradictory this premise going on here that Jews are prohibited by their religion to be exposed to Santa and thus this tradition must be thrown out to protect the religious beliefs of one Jewish kid.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:21 AM
 
35,911 posts, read 30,458,873 times
Reputation: 32154
[quote=Ummagumma;42448726]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post

AFAIK the non-Christians mainly use Christmas holiday to celebrate the New Year. Seeing how the two mainly overlap.

If you want to make an example of a perfect holiday that may have had religious roots but is now widely seen as non-religious, it's Halloween. By all means, let the schools concentrate on that.

Halloween is not a federal holiday. Schools have already banned Halloween for the most part, its fall festival now. I wish those dang Christians would stop trying to tell me Halloween is a satanic holiday!
And I guess Christmas is now New Years. Well at least that's taken care of.
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