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Old 01-01-2016, 09:43 AM
 
3,144 posts, read 878,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNative34 View Post
Thank you for clearing that up. The bold text bears repeating and shows that it isn't a "victory" at all. Not even a little bit.
I disagree. In the same manner that Rescue3 was made aware of the rampant abuse and corruption though this DOJ decision, others will also be awakened to the problems AF is causing.

It isn't the victory I had hoped, for sure.

Baby steps.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,807,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
I disagree. In the same manner that Rescue3 was made aware of the rampant abuse and corruption though this DOJ decision, others will also be awakened to the problems AF is causing.

It isn't the victory I had hoped, for sure.

Baby steps.
Do you mean the problems that civil forfeiture is causing?
What problems are being caused by asset forfeiture?
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:47 AM
 
3,144 posts, read 878,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Do you mean the problems that civil forfeiture is causing?
What problems are being caused by asset forfeiture?
Looking at the bigger picture, I do not believe the distinction matters. As long as there is financial incentive to any law enforcement agency to seize assets, including getting a cut from forfeited assets, corruption will be used to profit from it.

I believe what the DOJ did is the best of both worlds when it comes to asset forfeiture. It is still in place to be used against those it was designed to be used against, but the incentive to use corruption to profit from it has been removed.

Last edited by Raddo; 01-01-2016 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:08 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,807,576 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Looking at the bigger picture, I do not believe the distinction matters. As long as there is financial incentive to any law enforcement agency to seize assets, including getting a cut from forfeited assets, corruption will be used to profit from it.

I believe what the DOJ did is the best of both worlds when it comes to asset forfeiture. It is still in place to be used against those it was designed to be used against, but the incentive to use corruption to profit from it has been removed.
I think it was the worst of both worlds.

It undercut local department funding and will ultimately hamper federal investigations. This was probably mostly about the Toyota and GM fines and keeping local departments from getting any share of that $2B.

Meanwhile, it does absolutely nothing to stop the abuse of civil forfeiture with drug interdiction laws. That is still completely untouched by this decision, and will possible take some of the pressure off to reform civil forfeiture (since most people will think that this did something to civil forfeiture, when it did nothing). If anything, it will make local departments use pre-conviction civil forfeiture and local courts more now that federal post-conviction asset forfeiture through federal court results in all seized property going to the federal government.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:40 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 878,420 times
Reputation: 2466
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
I think it was the worst of both worlds.

It undercut local department funding and will ultimately hamper federal investigations. This was probably mostly about the Toyota and GM fines and keeping local departments from getting any share of that $2B.

Meanwhile, it does absolutely nothing to stop the abuse of civil forfeiture with drug interdiction laws. That is still completely untouched by this decision, and will possible take some of the pressure off to reform civil forfeiture (since most people will think that this did something to civil forfeiture, when it did nothing). If anything, it will make local departments use pre-conviction civil forfeiture and local courts more now that federal post-conviction asset forfeiture through federal court results in all seized property going to the federal government.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

Your guess that this move was made so that the feds could keep all the money from the Toyota and GM fines is just that: A guess. But I fully admit I don't know the true motive behind the move either.

You are also right that it does nothing to directly stop civil forfeiture abuse. But I am taking a more optimistic view than you, thinking it will ultimately raise awareness of the abuse. If the DOJ's motive for this move is to curb forfeiture abuse, then that information can be used as a weapon in the fight against civil forfeiture.

I seriously doubt it will hamper federal investigations. But even if I am wrong about all of this, I still stand by my original statement: There is no amount of extra punishment to criminals that justifies the corruption and abuse generated by providing law enforcement agencies with incentives based on the total amount of assets they manage to get forfeited or seized.
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