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Oh goody, another ignorant thread filled with stupid posts about evil pit bulls.
I wish these media pukes would show the photos of the dog every time they tell these stories, considering over half of this country doesn't even know what an actual pit bull looks like.
I'm wasting my time with dunderheads who don't want to listen, but nonetheless:
IT IS NOT THE DOG, IT IS THE LOSER PILE OF EXCREMENT OWNER WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. This part:
should never have happened. You don't leave children unattended around dogs. Complete idiot. ALL dogs can bite and injure or kill.
Yes, posts like that are absolutely going to continue to show up until people get it through their thick skulls to put the fricken blame where it lies: on the owner.
So if a Pit Bull is alone with a child it murders it?! What a great family pet to have!
Oh goody, another ignorant thread filled with stupid posts about evil pit bulls.
I wish these media pukes would show the photos of the dog every time they tell these stories, considering over half of this country doesn't even know what an actual pit bull looks like.
I'm wasting my time with dunderheads who don't want to listen, but nonetheless:
IT IS NOT THE DOG, IT IS THE LOSER PILE OF EXCREMENT OWNER WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. This part:
should never have happened. You don't leave children unattended around dogs. Complete idiot. ALL dogs can bite and injure or kill.
Yes, posts like that are absolutely going to continue to show up until people get it through their thick skulls to put the fricken blame where it lies: on the owner.
Why would you own a "pet" that you couldn't leave a 9 year old alone around?
This is a terrible tragedy. Even more so being seemingly preventable. Until Pit Bull numbers decrease you will continue to see these kinds of attacks. The more stupid owners and breeders creates more problems. Dogs can be dangerous, but many don't take good into account. Even if the dog has exhibited past aggression or stress. They brush it off until something happens. Not only speaking of Pits but with certain breeds the risk of severe injury will always be greater.
When it comes to this breed there are nuts on both sides. You have the fur mommy fanatics: my baby would never hurt anyone, she's raised with love and so sweet. Then you have the people on the other end: all Pit Bulls are dangerous killers who will snap one day.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Geek
I don't know why people get so defensive about Pitbulls. It's like keeping a lion as a pet. Sure it might be all nice and snuggly, until you annoy it in the slightest then it rips your head off without realizing it.
Owning a very large, wild cat is much different than owning a midsized domesticated dog. No matter how powerful and driven that dog is, it is not comparable to a lion.
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Originally Posted by TheShadow
Unfortunately even calm, well mannered pits have been known to freak out and snap when something triggers them and the results of even one bite from a large dog can be devastating. Multiple dogs can trigger a pack mentality, and if the child runs (as anyone would when frightened) it can trigger the dog's prey instincts. This can be true of all dogs, but all dogs are not capable of killing or biting off large chunks of flesh in one chomp.
My brother owns two of the sweetest dogs I've ever seen, both pits. One year on Thanksgiving Molly and Hank suddenly turned on one another because one took the other's place on the couch next to my brother. The fight lasted 15 minutes and was traumatizing to everyone involved. 15 minutes is a very long time for anyone to imagine with all the screaming, growling, barking, and with my brother and his wife desperately doing everything one can imagine to fight with all their strength to break it up. The house was splattered with blood from both dogs and my brother who tried desperately to stop the fight. He finally was able to end it, but vet and doctor visits were needed on all sides. My brother said that it was clear that if he didn't intervene this would have been a fight to the death of one of the dogs. These were two wonderful dogs that had lived together peaceably for years. Never again have they been allowed to be in the same room unless both are leashed (yes, in the house). After seeing the power unleashed in this fight my brother won't allow that to ever happen again, and he can't re-home them in good conscience knowing their propensity for that kind of violence. They are both angelic 99.9% of their lives.
So they own a breed of dog selectively bred for dog fighting and that have terrier tenacity, but they were surprised and traumatized by this fight?!
Seems an example of people owning a breed they know nothing about? Good thing Todd happened at home and not set the dog park, where many of these owners like to go.
Did they accept that they would possibly have to "crate and rotate" or otherwise manage them if they owned more than one.
Lots of Pits live in a multi dog home just fine, but you should still accept the possibility that they won't as a reality.
This is apples to oranges and a far reach to be related to the topic at hand. Dog aggression and people aggression are unrelated. A dog could have both and it depends where the aggression stems from, but most that will fight another dog are not a danger to people. Likewise, some dogs are a danger to people but never to other dogs.
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Originally Posted by marino760
So much for the "nanny dog" profile many like to put on pits. Truthfully though, each dog is an individual. The problem with pits is you don't know how far back in their lineage they were used for fighting or attack dogs. Their personalities like all dogs are a mix of breeding and environment. They can be the sweetest dogs or loaded guns. I wouldn't take the chance.
Yes you do, it's called a pedigree. If you rescue a dog, sure you might not know their lineage. However, being a pure bred dog you do have the ability to purchase a dog known lineage. Sadly too many owners don't take the time to research or buy from a good breeder in ANY breed. That is on them though.
It is very uncommon for them to be bred as attack dogs, it's happened but more often it is bully and bandog types used for this. There are those with sound bandogs, but most of these people are breeding for simply size and aggression, not stability at all, throw in their layman training and that's the loaded gun.
You have good points though. Many fail to recognize it's genetics and environment that go into a dog. That's on both sides too. The same people who deem them all dangerous don't take into account that they are not all bred alike. The same people who say they are sweet unless abused or trained to be man don't take into account they are not all bred alike. Some have terrible genetic temperament. Others are sound dogs because of their genetic make up.
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Originally Posted by marino760
If that had been a pit bull instead of a golden retriever, the poodle would have lost a lot more than an eye. That's the difference. When a pit bull gets pissed, they don't just bite and then forget about it. They usually do not stop until the other dog is dead. And they have the strong jaw to do it rather easily.
Wrongful assumption. Back in 02 or 03, toy poodle got into my fenced yard by squeezing between the gate and pole. He neither lost an eye or died. What is the real shame is that while he didn't sustain serious injuty/death that he had irresponsible owners. They always let him wander. He was in his teens and blind. Witnessed him nearly be hit by cars more than once but his owners refused to keep him on their property.
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Originally Posted by MustermannBB
So why don't I read almost monthly about some deadly attacks of other dogs? It usually are Pit Bulls who do the killing when it comes to "domesticated" dogs.
I could domesticate a wolf, does not mean it makes great pet, that one should trust. After every Pit Bull attack you hear the same excuses. It is not the dog but the owner. The owner was not properly trained etc etc.
Well if one needs to be so well trained to have a Pit Bull as pet, one might do little more training and domesticate a lion. If something happens oh well it is not the lions fault.......
Why? Numbers maybe. Pit Bulls are probably the most popular / common breed. If other powerful, driven breeds were as popular you would see the attacks. When the Rott became extremely popular that is when you heard about attacks and fatalities. Now they have had a steady decline, there numbers are at an extreme low and you don't hear about attacks anymore. In other cases the dogs just can't do that much damage. As with some of the smaller breeds that are popular, poorly bred and managed, this doesn't make them any less bad tempered but clearly a 15lbs dog isn't capable of killing most kids and not an adult.
No you can't domesticate "a wolf" it would take years of selective breeding to create domesticated wolves. Even wolf hybrids have wolf characteristics. If that were the case we could all just own wolves or train any breed of dog to do anything.
No excuses, it was the owner who made the choices with their dogs. We will never know the full story either, like if these dogs showed issues before the attack? And yes it was the dogs that killed the child, which clearly means something was off with them too. I would not trust these dogs for a minute.
You have a flawed argument. In a biological sense training does not equal domestication. People wish to say they tamed a wild animal as if that means domestication but it is not truly a domesticated animal. Modern science has proven this. Domestication takes play on a genetic level and with key epigenetic factors.
You need to be responsible. This is true with all breeds, but clearly logic dictates a more powerful, tenacious breed is a much bigger disaster if you are not.
Many kids who are killed by dogs were left alone with them. The kid killed in the playpen by huskies alone, the boy killed by the mastiff alone, this boy by Pits alone, so on and so on. Not every time but in most cases. Statistically it is also usually boys 10 & under bitten. A study in another country said boys ages 12 and under.
Why? Numbers maybe. Pit Bulls are probably the most popular / common breed. If other powerful, driven breeds were as popular you would see the attacks. When the Rott became extremely popular that is when you heard about attacks and fatalities. Now they have had a steady decline, there numbers are at an extreme low and you don't hear about attacks anymore. In other cases the dogs just can't do that much damage. As with some of the smaller breeds that are popular, poorly bred and managed, this doesn't make them any less bad tempered but clearly a 15lbs dog isn't capable of killing most kids and not an adult.
That is your assumption that we would see as many attacks with other breeds.What we do know however is that with Pit Bulls we do see these attacks and that frequently!
Also are there any numbers to substantiate that the Pit Bull is the most popular breed? Attacks from Rottweilers were never that frequent as with Pit Bulls and never almost always deadly.
Quote:
No you can't domesticate "a wolf" it would take years of selective breeding to create domesticated wolves. Even wolf hybrids have wolf characteristics. If that were the case we could all just own wolves or train any breed of dog to do anything.
No excuses, it was the owner who made the choices with their dogs. We will never know the full story either, like if these dogs showed issues before the attack? And yes it was the dogs that killed the child, which clearly means something was off with them too. I would not trust these dogs for a minute.
You have a flawed argument. In a biological sense training does not equal domestication. People wish to say they tamed a wild animal as if that means domestication but it is not truly a domesticated animal. Modern science has proven this. Domestication takes play on a genetic level and with key epigenetic factors.
You need to be responsible. This is true with all breeds, but clearly logic dictates a more powerful, tenacious breed is a much bigger disaster if you are not.
There it is again, with proper owners everything would be fine. How long and often must one hear this "Trump card". Fact is this breeds is killing constantly and if it is so hard to keep this breed in check (by their owners) that perhaps this breed is just not fit for being a pet. Just like a wolf!
Quote:
Many kids who are killed by dogs were left alone with them. The kid killed in the playpen by huskies alone, the boy killed by the mastiff alone, this boy by Pits alone, so on and so on. Not every time but in most cases. Statistically it is also usually boys 10 & under bitten. A study in another country said boys ages 12 and under.
And statistically the overwhelming majority of the dog who is doing the killing is the Pit Bull!
Pit Bulls are only a breed, not a species. They no longer serve any legitimate purpose, and are only a fashion statement.
No big loss, in letting a breed, die out.
That is another thing I guess I just don't get.
What is even the point in having one of these Pit Bulls, what besides killing children and going crazy on you eventually are they good for? What can they do that other dogs of similar size can't. Obviously they are not great with children so that discounts them as a family pet. So that leaves what.........
Last edited by MustermannBB; 01-05-2016 at 09:22 PM..
Why? Numbers maybe. Pit Bulls are probably the most popular / common breed. If other powerful, driven breeds were as popular you would see the attacks. When the Rott became extremely popular that is when you heard about attacks and fatalities. Now they have had a steady decline, there numbers are at an extreme low and you don't hear about attacks anymore. In other cases the dogs just can't do that much damage. As with some of the smaller breeds that are popular, poorly bred and managed, this doesn't make them any less bad tempered but clearly a 15lbs dog isn't capable of killing most kids and not an adult.
This (the bolded) is simply wrong.
According to the AKC last year, for the 24th year in a row, the Labrador was the most popular dog.
The Rottweiler was the 10th most populate breed in America.
Plus, of course much of the problem with Pits is that true, bred, AKC registered dogs probably aren't the ones making the headlines. It seems to be the homegrown, pit-mixed-breeds that are the ones killing people.
That is your assumption that we would see as many attacks with other breeds.What we do know however is that with Pit Bulls we do see these attacks and that frequently!
Also are there any numbers to substantiate that the Pit Bull is the most popular breed? Attacks from Rottweilers were never that frequent as with Pit Bulls and never almost always deadly.
There is no way to know exact numbers but using registration numbers at least gives us an idea of how popular a breed is.
It is not an assumption exactly. I am applying thought to this. You need to take into account all the mid to late 90s and early 2000s Rottweiler fatalities that you are ignoring and of course the other bad attacks that didn't end in death. In the short time that they had 100,000 registration figures and the following years. In the late 90s & early 2000s there were still fatalities (the number of Rotts would still be high from previous years) but the registration numbers started declining 50k, 40k, 30k on into the new millennium. At the same time (late 90s) Pit Bulls were gaining popularity quickly. 220,000 registered in 1999. Into the 2000s they continued to be popular and their popularity has unfortunately still not wavered (registration numbers 200,000+). If you look at the fatalities becoming a problem the early 2000s is when it really started and continue worse and worse.
In Australia the dog population is much smaller but a few years study of dog attacks showed German Shepherd responsible for the most 39, Rottweilers at the same time 14. Numbers are much smaller there but GSD was popular during those years. Numbers at nearly 8,000 up to 8600, the few years prior to the attacks the numbers were 10-13k. Rottweilers were less but more popular breed during that time also 5-6k, one year 8,900. The years prior numbers were 5-7k.
I can't say with any certainty what would happen if those breeds were as popular as Pits in the US, but I feel that I can draw plausible conclusion that if GSD, Rotts, Dobie, Presa Cabario, Fila, Staffordshire Bull Terrier (cousin to Pit Bull), Malinois and a whole host of other powerful, driven breeds were as high in numbers attacks by those breeds would be as frequent.
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There it is again, with proper owners everything would be fine. How long and often must one hear this "Trump card". Fact is this breeds is killing constantly and if it is so hard to keep this breed in check (by their owners) that perhaps this breed is just not fit for being a pet. Just like a wolf!
The fact is it isn't that hard though. That's what kills me! You are taking what I said out of context. I said all breeds should have a responsible owner. I guess common sense is too much to ask for. A Pit is fit to be a pet when bred and raised properly, like any other breed (if that's a trump card to you I accept that). An unstable Pit is only fit for euthanasia. Do you believe that people should only own small dogs and mid - large dogs that don't have a high bite rate/high drives? To reduce Pit Bull population and number of owners would be welcome by me. End of problem.
I guess I'm a special, lucky, super owner of some sort.
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And statistically the overwhelming majority of the dog who is doing the killing is the Pit Bull!
You are right. I am only pointing out other circumstances. I still am not in fear for my life over a breed of dog.
There is no way to know exact numbers but using registration numbers at least gives us an idea of how popular a breed is.
It is not an assumption exactly. I am applying thought to this. You need to take into account all the mid to late 90s and early 2000s Rottweiler fatalities that you are ignoring and of course the other bad attacks that didn't end in death. In the short time that they had 100,000 registration figures and the following years. In the late 90s & early 2000s there were still fatalities (the number of Rotts would still be high from previous years) but the registration numbers started declining 50k, 40k, 30k on into the new millennium. At the same time (late 90s) Pit Bulls were gaining popularity quickly. 220,000 registered in 1999. Into the 2000s they continued to be popular and their popularity has unfortunately still not wavered (registration numbers 200,000+). If you look at the fatalities becoming a problem the early 2000s is when it really started and continue worse and worse.
In Australia the dog population is much smaller but a few years study of dog attacks showed German Shepherd responsible for the most 39, Rottweilers at the same time 14. Numbers are much smaller there but GSD was popular during those years. Numbers at nearly 8,000 up to 8600, the few years prior to the attacks the numbers were 10-13k. Rottweilers were less but more popular breed during that time also 5-6k, one year 8,900. The years prior numbers were 5-7k.
I can't say with any certainty what would happen if those breeds were as popular as Pits in the US, but I feel that I can draw plausible conclusion that if GSD, Rotts, Dobie, Presa Cabario, Fila, Staffordshire Bull Terrier (cousin to Pit Bull), Malinois and a whole host of other powerful, driven breeds were as high in numbers attacks by those breeds would be as frequent.
The fact is it isn't that hard though. That's what kills me! You are taking what I said out of context. I said all breeds should have a responsible owner. I guess common sense is too much to ask for. A Pit is fit to be a pet when bred and raised properly, like any other breed (if that's a trump card to you I accept that). An unstable Pit is only fit for euthanasia. Do you believe that people should only own small dogs and mid - large dogs that don't have a high bite rate/high drives? To reduce Pit Bull population and number of owners would be welcome by me. End of problem.
I guess I'm a special, lucky, super owner of some sort.
You are right. I am only pointing out other circumstances. I still am not in fear for my life over a breed of dog.
Well it looks like your assumption that Pit Bulls are the most common breed in the US, seems to be false, or do you have any actual numbers and sources which say so? Not sure how good that makes the rest of your theory! And yes it is an assumption.
In regards to the owners, again how come that it only seems to be owners of Pit Bulls then who seem to be "bad" owners?
Where are all these bad owners for "German Shepherds" ? It seems that these Pits need extra "good" owners to be fit for pets. That you fall into this category is great. But again there are some who could have a pet wolf, still does not mean it should be a pet.
I believe that if a certain breed is so prone to violent behavior and so often the culprit of slain children and overall deadly attacks then it does not need to be considered a pet.
I don't think any of the slain victims of these pit bulls were ever in fear of their life of any breed, perhaps until those last few seconds.
Now I admit, I am set in my ways when it comes to my opinion on these dogs but consider this, the people who defend these pit bulls are very often very knowledgeable about dogs, like yourself seems to be. Unfortunately knowledge is not required to own a pet and as long as that is the case IMHO these type dogs are not fit to be so. Why would one want one is beyond me as well but hey I also don't get people who have pet cobras or pythons......
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