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Old 05-23-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: On the road
5,926 posts, read 2,887,264 times
Reputation: 11331

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
If the equipment performs as advertised. I'd like to see just how well a $150 million (unit cost) performs in a real war. Hell, that thing needs 7 hours of maintenance for every hour of flight time and if it rains it needs a new paint job.
You mean if low-observable characteristics perform like they have already performed effectively in previous wars? Whether all those passive sensors and AN/AGP-77 radar somehow won't work in real war? The extremely lopsided kill ratio of US made 4th gen fighters over MIG-29s (another super maneuverable airshow stud with lots of youtube hype) will magically change with 5th gen versus 4.5? Um, no, it'll only get worse:

"Two other German officers, Col. Andreas Pfeiffer and Maj. Marco Gumbrecht, noted in the same report that the F-22's capabilities are "overwhelming" when it comes to modern, long-range combat as the stealth fighter is designed to engage multiple enemies well-beyond the pilot's natural field of vision - mostly while the F-22 is still out of the other plane's range. Grumbrecht said that even if his planes did everything right, they weren't able to get within 20 miles of the next-generation jets before being targeted."

The rain thing is a myth and has been debunked repeatedly, F-22 is an all-weather fighter that is currently operating in some of the harshest environments in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
It may look good in the media and the news but I suspect that it may not be as effective in the battlespace as you might. I always heard the M1 Abrams was the best tank in the world. Guess what? I've been watching Yemeni goat herders lighting those suckers up all over the place with 1980 era Kornet ATGMs. Not exactly what was expected in a real fight.
So you suspect this plane won't be effective because you've seen youtube videos proving a tank isn't impervious to antitank weapons? Brilliant. Do you have anything actually related to F-22 performance to lean on here? Like is the radar deficient, stealth not as advertised, thrust vectoring no worky? Anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I think we greatly underestimate what Russia is capable of. She hasn't even gotten serious yet. Just think what would happen if Russia started supplying weapons to certain militant groups in the ME. In Afghanistan maybe? Like tio see the body count coming out of there if they ever did.
I think some people get enamored with videos of Russian planes flying fancy maneuvers then conclude with very little facts or understanding that American planes must be overrated and Russian ones underrated.

SU-35 isn't the best fighter aircraft every built as that ridiculous video glaims, it is an upgraded version of SU-27 that first flew in the 70s. It is far inferior to modern 5th generation fighters. Go ask any surviving MIG-29 pilots how their fancy planes performed in a real war versus F-15 and F-16s.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:55 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,528,268 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Does this look like an ox driven cart to you?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWUWolcWJaA

Does Sukhoi or MIG make them?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wKqEv67nw0

I think it would be good not to underestimate those one wheeled ox carts.
You are free to go back there and reside any time you wish! Aeroflot flies out of JFK does it not?

I think it's highly disingenuous to come on here and try to create a narrative where poor old Russia is a meek and mild place who's government has/is never been and isn't now totally bent on expansion and control over it's citizens and neighbors.
It's incursions into Ukraine tell a very different tale.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:49 AM
 
3,603 posts, read 1,556,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You are free to go back there and reside any time you wish! Aeroflot flies out of JFK does it not?

I think it's highly disingenuous to come on here and try to create a narrative where poor old Russia is a meek and mild place who's government has/is never been and isn't now totally bent on expansion and control over it's citizens and neighbors.
It's incursions into Ukraine tell a very different tale.
Imagine the converse. What would you do if Russia builds up its missile system and troops within Russia itself near the Alaska coast? Whole world would cry foulplay even though its within their own country.
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:19 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,528,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
Imagine the converse. What would you do if Russia builds up its missile system and troops within Russia itself near the Alaska coast? Whole world would cry foulplay even though its within their own country.
I think there'd be some worry given their past and recent history of aggression (invasion) of their neighbors.
Have we invaded our neighbors?
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:27 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 2,315,324 times
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Quote:
I think there'd be some worry given their past and recent history of aggression (invasion) of their neighbors.
Have we invaded our neighbors?
Invasions? Are you talking about Georgia? Seems to me Saakashvili and his little army opened up on Tshinvali with grad rickets and got his butt handed to him for HIS aggression.

Ukraine? The Crimea? What was the date of the invasion? How can you invade a country when your troops are already there and have been for a long time?

You're very ill informed.

Lieqang. I think you play too many video games and read too much Tom Clancy. Study some history and learn something about how warfare works.
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:27 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,926 posts, read 2,887,264 times
Reputation: 11331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Lieqang. I think you play too many video games and read too much Tom Clancy. Study some history and learn something about how warfare works.
Coming from the guy who has based his opinion of the F-22 on youtube videos of tanks being blown up by antitank weapons this is pretty rich. You haven't been able to counter anything I've said or back up any claim you've made, so you've dragged out a feeble insult that doesn't help your argument.

You want history look at Kosovo, six MIG-29s shot down 3 by F-15s and three by F-16s. Some good history in Iraq, five MIG-29s shot down by F-15s. I think the only thing a MIG-29 has shot down was a Georgian drone.

Hey how about you go dig up some cool airshow videos of MIG-29s, I bet you love that plane eh?
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:17 AM
 
8,013 posts, read 7,295,370 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
I think there'd be some worry given their past and recent history of aggression (invasion) of their neighbors.
Have we invaded our neighbors?
Cuba Bay of Pigs

Nicaragua Contras.

They've tried the same elsewhere many times.

The policy is referred to in textbooks as Gunboat DIplomacy.
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:17 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,528,268 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Cuba Bay of Pigs

Nicaragua Contras.

They've tried the same elsewhere many times.

The policy is referred to in textbooks as Gunboat DIplomacy.
Again, have we INVADED our neighbors? Mexico and Canada are just fine although one is currently invading us.
Gotta love revisionist history.
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:44 AM
 
Location: England
3,250 posts, read 3,141,910 times
Reputation: 3210
I met some Russian ex pats in Cyprus last year, to say they dislike Putin is an understatement. They have seen their savings all but destroyed due to Putin's misjudged actions in Ukraine and Russia's economic meltdown.

I asked them why Putin was still so popular with the Russian people and one of them said, the Russian people are like mushrooms, they are kept in the dark and are fed plenty of s..t, as long as the price of Vodka stays low they are happy.
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,694,054 times
Reputation: 4521
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Not picking nits here but what if anything has recent events in the Crimea and the Ukraine showed us?

As suggested though; I agree with the concept of Europe perhaps engaging Russia with more forcefulness itself rather than just sitting there and going: "oh it's just Putin rattling his garbage cans at 5 AM out in the driveway again, we'll call the U.S. in the morning" ....and then rolling over to go back to sleep.

Why the hell don't they create a huge U.N. boondoggle over Russia's actions to the point Russia's citizens begin to take note his shirtless horseback riding, muscle flexing persona is getting them nowhere but backward?
Because the modern day Europeans are unable and unwilling to protect themselves; they'd rather "adapt".
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