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Old 05-28-2016, 03:40 PM
 
4,808 posts, read 1,908,666 times
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Quote:
Again, have we INVADED our neighbors? Mexico and Canada are just fine although one is currently invading us.
Gotta love revisionist history
Aggressive acts by America have cost millions of people their lives the world over. Your question about invading is just a red herring. America has some of the most glaring revisionist history ever written and fortunately some of us are not ignorant super patriots willing to run off and die for the flag when told to do so.

Russia attacked Georgia because Georgias army attacked the peacekeeping force that was FULLY AUTHORIZED to be there. Shakeasswilly ordered the invasion which killed innocent civilians as they slept. Russia STOOD UP FOR the Ossetians against the military aggression of a western sponsored dictatorship run by a fat egomaniac. Russia PREVENTED the ethnic cleansing of S Osettia and Abkhazia.

Hell America would have just called them statistics or even terrorists. Millions can be killed by Americas underlings so long as it meets Americas goals.

Just like what is happening in Ukraine now.

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

Get an education.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,592,535 times
Reputation: 4521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Aggressive acts by America have cost millions of people their lives the world over. Your question about invading is just a red herring. America has some of the most glaring revisionist history ever written and fortunately some of us are not ignorant super patriots willing to run off and die for the flag when told to do so.

Russia attacked Georgia because Georgias army attacked the peacekeeping force that was FULLY AUTHORIZED to be there. Shakeasswilly ordered the invasion which killed innocent civilians as they slept. Russia STOOD UP FOR the Ossetians against the military aggression of a western sponsored dictatorship run by a fat egomaniac. Russia PREVENTED the ethnic cleansing of S Osettia and Abkhazia.

Hell America would have just called them statistics or even terrorists. Millions can be killed by Americas underlings so long as it meets Americas goals.

Just like what is happening in Ukraine now.

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

Get an education.

"By August 1, 2008, Ossetian separatists began shelling Georgian villages, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers in the region. Following these deadly attacks, Georgia began a full-scale military operation in the South Ossetian conflict zone on 7 August,[40] taking control of most of Tskhinvali in hours. Georgia later stated it was also responding to Russia moving non-peacekeeping units into the country."

Stop being Putin's shill. There was no "good guys" in the conflict.
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Old 05-29-2016, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
698 posts, read 510,432 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Aggressive acts by America have cost millions of people their lives the world over. Your question about invading is just a red herring. America has some of the most glaring revisionist history ever written and fortunately some of us are not ignorant super patriots willing to run off and die for the flag when told to do so.

Russia attacked Georgia because Georgias army attacked the peacekeeping force that was FULLY AUTHORIZED to be there. Shakeasswilly ordered the invasion which killed innocent civilians as they slept. Russia STOOD UP FOR the Ossetians against the military aggression of a western sponsored dictatorship run by a fat egomaniac. Russia PREVENTED the ethnic cleansing of S Osettia and Abkhazia.

Hell America would have just called them statistics or even terrorists. Millions can be killed by Americas underlings so long as it meets Americas goals.

Just like what is happening in Ukraine now.

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

Get an education.
The only revisionism evident is your harebrained defense of Putin's militant interventionism. Immediately after assuming the presidency in 2000, Putin introduced a scheme to distribute Russian passports to citizens of Abkhazia and Ossetia and ease the law which allowed for those with former Soviet citizenship to become Russian citizens; All this occurring without the knowledge or approval of the sovereign nation of Georgia. By 2002, of the approximately 240,000 people living in Abkhazia, 200,000 were officially counted as "citizens of Russia" by Moscow. Not surprisingly, those "Russians" would eventually need "saving".

In March of 2008, Russia's Duma passed a resolution calling on the Russian government to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

On April 20, 2008, a Russian MIG29 shot down a Georgian UAV in violation of the Sochi agreement. Despite denials from Moscow, an independent U.N. investigation proved Russia was responsible.

On April 30, 2008, Russia would accuse Georgia of attempting to invade Abkhazia therefore justifying an increase in Russian troops and the "need to take retaliatory measures" to protect "Russian passport-holders".

On May 18, 2008, the BBC obtains footage of Russian troops positioning military equipment in Abkhazia.

On June 17, 2008, Georgia detains Russian "peacekeepers" and a military vehicle transporting 35 crates of ammunition including guided missiles and anti-tank mines across the border.

On August 1, 2008, an explosion near Tskhinvali engineered by South Ossetian separatists maimed five Georgian policemen.

All the above events occurred BEFORE the fighting in tskhinvali which resulted in the deaths of what Russian authorities referred to as "peacekeepers". It also should be noted that the "peacekeeping force" that was "fully authorized" was an agreement signed back in 1992 between Boris Yeltsin and the Georgian leader who previously served in the Soviet government. After Shevardnadze resigned in 2003, Georgia objected to the agreement and proposed a more balanced peacekeeping force involving the European Union. Russia, of course, rejected.

To recap, Russia stationed "peacekeeping" forces in a pro-Russian breakaway region of a former Soviet Republic. Using its influence in the territory, Russia gradually increased its political and economic authority. Under the guise of "protecting Russians", they armed and deployed their "peacekeeping" forces throughout the region ousting the authorities of the national government. After gaining complete control of the territory, a "referendum" to join the Russian federation is conducted resulting in "overwhelming" support for Russian annexation.

Just like what is happening in Ukraine right now.
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Old 05-29-2016, 04:09 PM
 
4,808 posts, read 1,908,666 times
Reputation: 4887
Quote:
In March of 2008, Russia's Duma passed a resolution calling on the Russian government to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
If you look at history you'd find that the objective of the Georgian majority was to ethnically cleanse the S Ossetians. This protected the potential victims.

Quote:
On April 20, 2008, a Russian MIG29 shot down a Georgian UAV in violation of the Sochi agreement. Despite denials from Moscow, an independent U.N. investigation proved Russia was responsible.
Why was it spying on Abkhazia?

Quote:
On April 30, 2008, Russia would accuse Georgia of attempting to invade Abkhazia therefore justifying an increase in Russian troops and the "need to take retaliatory measures" to protect "Russian passport-holders".
Quote:
On May 18, 2008, the BBC obtains footage of Russian troops positioning military equipment in Abkhazia.
It's called "deterrance" look it up. I'd do the same thing considering the mad dog in charge.

Quote:
On June 17, 2008, Georgia detains Russian "peacekeepers" and a military vehicle transporting 35 crates of ammunition including guided missiles and anti-tank mines across the border.
Never heard of it.

Quote:
On August 1, 2008, an explosion near Tskhinvali engineered by South Ossetian separatists maimed five Georgian policemen.
They were doing recon. They weren't cops they were spies.

Quote:
Just like what is happening in Ukraine right now.
Way off the mark.
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,592,535 times
Reputation: 4521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
If you look at history you'd find that the objective of the Georgian majority was to ethnically cleanse the S Ossetians. This protected the potential victims.



Why was it spying on Abkhazia?





It's called "deterrance" look it up. I'd do the same thing considering the mad dog in charge.



Never heard of it.



They were doing recon. They weren't cops they were spies.



Way off the mark.
No, he's right on the mark. Same scenario (see Putin's boasts about moving special forces into Crimea bases prior to annexation), similar outcome, except this time the top Russian figures got hit with sanctions.
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Old 05-29-2016, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
698 posts, read 510,432 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
If you look at history you'd find that the objective of the Georgian majority was to ethnically cleanse the S Ossetians. This protected the potential victims.
Following the Soviet invasion of Georgia in 1921, an autonomous territory was created for South Ossetians called the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast. In creating the boundary for this area, the government included historically Georgian lands occupied by ethnic Georgians, including the city of Tskhinvali. It was ethnic Georgians driven from their territory by the immigrant community of Ossetians, not the other way around.

Quote:
Why was it spying on Abkhazia?
Why was Georgia conducting surveillance on its own territory? I'd assume gathering intelligence on the separatist movement. The more important question is why was Russia patrolling the skies of a sovereign nation with attack aircraft?

Quote:
It's called "deterrance" look it up. I'd do the same thing considering the mad dog in charge.
Deterrence? As in "preemptive strike"? The go-to reasoning behind nearly every destructive foreign policy decision ever made. Whether or not the Georgian military was on the verge of an offensive in retaliation for the shelling of Georgian villages, it was not for Russia to take it upon itself to intervene.

Quote:
Never heard of it.
Russia warns Georgia over peacekeepers' detention | Reuters

Quote:
They were doing recon. They weren't cops they were spies.
Quite odd for "spies" to use a marked police vehicle to conduct missions especially considering that police were known targets in that area.

Quote:
Way off the mark
Please elaborate.
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:11 PM
 
30,036 posts, read 15,377,701 times
Reputation: 15737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
The US is placing the first portions of the AMD system in Eastern Europe. This is not intended to protect Europe from the likes of Iran. It's to protect Europe from Russian intermediate range missiles.

I agree with Russia. It is a threat to Russia and Russia is right to be concerned.
You're going to have to elaborate on what makes it a threat. Russian IRBMs having a harder time reaching European targets is hardly a threat - even if Russia intends to fire them, which I very much hope isn't the case.

Aegis is as defensive as it gets.
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Old 06-04-2016, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,592,535 times
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
You're going to have to elaborate on what makes it a threat. Russian IRBMs having a harder time reaching European targets is hardly a threat - even if Russia intends to fire them, which I very much hope isn't the case.

Aegis is as defensive as it gets.
Limiting the ability of Russian missiles to strike at Europe is a threat to Russia, what's hard to understand here ? How else is Russia supposed to conduct it's foreign policy if not under the threat of a nuclear strike ? Just ask North Korea.

In all seriousness though, I believe their paranoia stems from thinking that the ability to protect Europe from Russian missiles would somehow embolden the US to attack first. Which is completely idiotic for anyone who understands the political dynamics between EU and US, for starters.

Although I personally don't think Putin is that dumb. More likely, it's just another propaganda tool he uses to paint the picture of Russia as a fortress surrounded by the vicious enemies, in an effort to unite the Russians around the regime and use the patriotic fervor as a smokescreen against his complete neglect of the Russian economy and missing a golden opportunity to restart it while the country was earning trillions in oil money. He can't afford to lose his position- this would quite literally mean death to him - so he'll start a Word War III if that's what it takes to stay in power.
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:25 PM
 
4,808 posts, read 1,908,666 times
Reputation: 4887
Quote:
Aegis is as defensive as it gets
First off at least know what you're talking about before you try to BS people. The Aegis system is capable of both defense and offense. It just depends on what you load into it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

Quote:
The ACS is composed of the Aegis Weapon System (AWS), the fast-reaction component of the Aegis Anti-Aircraft Warfare (AAW) capability, along with the Phalanx Close In Weapon System (CIWS), and the Mark 41 Vertical Launch System.[2] Mk 41 VLS adopts a modular design concept, which results in different versions that vary in size and weight. The length comes in three sizes: 209 in (5.3 m) for the self-defense version, 266 in (6.8 m) for the tactical version, and 303 in (7.7 m) for the strike version. The empty weight for an 8-cell module is 26,800 lb (12,200 kg) for the self-defense version, 29,800 lb (13,500 kg) for the tactical version, and 32,000 lb (15,000 kg) for the strike version, thus incorporating anti-submarine warfare (ASW) systems and Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise Missiles (TLAM). Shipboard torpedo and naval gunnery systems are also integrated.
We all remember the ships in the gulf during the 1st and 2nd gulf wars. Do you expect me to believe they were launching defensive cruise missiles against Saddams forces? Anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of warfare knows what is going on here.

I also have a question for you. Why was Russia not invited to be a part of this system? If it's truly about Iran it is certainly better to place it in the Caspian sea or around southern Russia where any missiles can be hit in their more vulnerable launch phase than their descent phase.

Why were they not invited? Why were they refused outright?

Quote:
In all seriousness though, I believe their paranoia stems from thinking that the ability to protect Europe from Russian missiles would somehow embolden the US to attack first. Which is completely idiotic for anyone who understands the political dynamics between EU and US, for starters.
It's idiotic to think that considering the behavior of NATO (the US) for the last 120 years would not if given a chance try something. If you're in the same crowd as the US you keep an eye over your shoulder AT ALL TIMES. Read up on the concept of MAD and make no mistake, there's politicians in the west who think that several 10s of millions dead in a nuclear exchange is acceptable. So long as they're not one of the dead.

Quote:
Although I personally don't think Putin is that dumb. More likely, it's just another propaganda tool he uses to paint the picture of Russia as a fortress surrounded by the vicious enemies, in an effort to unite the Russians around the regime and use the patriotic fervor as a smokescreen against his complete neglect of the Russian economy and missing a golden opportunity to restart it while the country was earning trillions in oil money. He can't afford to lose his position- this would quite literally mean death to him - so he'll start a Word War III if that's what it takes to stay in power.
Get informed. Russians and Russia aren't doing so bad. Certain EU countries are doing their part in the sanctions and are getting hurt by them too. German industrialists are getting pissed and the Irish are buying Sukhoi Super Jets. Russia and China have begun many projects such as the beginning of a new passenger liner to compete with Airbus and Boeing. It's based on the IL-96 and will be designed in Russia and built in China. Russia is also beginning to understand the situation and investing in its own infrastructure.

Quote:
Following the Soviet invasion of Georgia in 1921, an autonomous territory was created for South Ossetians called the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast. In creating the boundary for this area, the government included historically Georgian lands occupied by ethnic Georgians, including the city of Tskhinvali. It was ethnic Georgians driven from their territory by the immigrant community of Ossetians, not the other way around.
At some point in time the tribal warfare has to stop. Going to war over what happened 100 years ago is stupid. Tell you what. I'll agree with you if the US gives back all the land that was taken from the native Americans.

Russia is moving away from the smaller units for it's defense. A good move. With America on the horizon you need to be prepared.

How Russia is preparing for WWIII | The Vineyard of the Saker



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0olqSue3kM
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:43 PM
 
30,036 posts, read 15,377,701 times
Reputation: 15737
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Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
First off at least know what you're talking about before you try to BS people. The Aegis system is capable of both defense and offense. It just depends on what you load into it.
I would have thought it somewhat obvious from context that the system in question was Aegis Ashore, not the maritime Aegis you're describing. Guess not. Aegis Ashore is integrated with the SM-3 missile. Which is, to recap, a SAM.

Quote:
I also have a question for you. Why was Russia not invited to be a part of this system?
Because of Russia's recent behavior on the world stage. NATO and Russia's interests aren't really overlapping at this time.

Quote:
If it's truly about Iran it is certainly better to place it in the Caspian sea or around southern Russia where any missiles can be hit in their more vulnerable launch phase than their descent phase.

Why were they not invited? Why were they refused outright?
Because nobody wants to give them more information on the Aegis system than is necessary. Russia's government's line does not make defense cooperation very palatable. You don't share sensitive information with an air force that buzzes your destroyers.

Quote:
It's idiotic to think that considering the behavior of NATO (the US) for the last 120 years would not if given a chance try something.
Sense this sentence makes not.
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