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Old 06-04-2016, 07:46 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
More likely, it's just another propaganda tool he uses to paint the picture of Russia as a fortress surrounded by the vicious enemies, in an effort to unite the Russians around the regime and use the patriotic fervor as a smokescreen against his complete neglect of the Russian economy...
Absolutely. Like Kirchner with the Falkland Islands.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:58 AM
 
4,758 posts, read 1,870,062 times
Reputation: 4816
Quote:
I would have thought it somewhat obvious from context that the system in question was Aegis Ashore, not the maritime Aegis you're describing. Guess not. Aegis Ashore is integrated with the SM-3 missile. Which is, to recap, a SAM.
Aegis ashore or on a ship are essentially the same thing. Are you going to to tell me Aegis ashore can only have SAMs in the tubes?

MDA - Aegis Ashore

Quote:
Use the same components (AN/SPY-1 Radar, Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence (C4I) systems, Vertical Launch System, computer processors, display system, power supplies and water coolers) that are used onboard the Navy's new construction Aegis BMD Destroyers.
Seems to me that Aegis Ashore lacks only one thing Aegis on a boat has. On a boat its more mobile.

As for the rest of your post it's just a series of lame excuses and only shows me you know little of the subject. Over a decade ago (Bush admin) Russia proposed a joint missile defense and it was rejected out of hand. This was long before 8/8/08 or what is going on in Ukraine.

To a blind patriot like you who chooses to only see one side of the situation of course it doesn't make sense. If you look at anything from the sinking of the Maine to the gulf of Tonkin incident or the laughable WMDs in Iraq affair you'll see a pattern.

America has killed millions simply to further its goals. It will happen again too. The west is lucky Putin is in power. I hear Medvedev would not be so restrained and if I myself were Putin certain things would be very different.

BTW. In Aug 08 it was not Putin who ordered the attack on Georgia. It was Medvedev. Sadly I think that with the Ukraine a line was crossed and now Russia has little choice but to prepare for what may be inevitable. It's practically the same situation that it was in Germany in the 1930s.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,576,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Absolutely. Like Kirchner with the Falkland Islands.
Raher like Galtieri. Unfortunately.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,576,851 times
Reputation: 4521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Aegis ashore or on a ship are essentially the same thing. Are you going to to tell me Aegis ashore can only have SAMs in the tubes?

MDA - Aegis Ashore



Seems to me that Aegis Ashore lacks only one thing Aegis on a boat has. On a boat its more mobile.

As for the rest of your post it's just a series of lame excuses and only shows me you know little of the subject. Over a decade ago (Bush admin) Russia proposed a joint missile defense and it was rejected out of hand. This was long before 8/8/08 or what is going on in Ukraine.

To a blind patriot like you who chooses to only see one side of the situation of course it doesn't make sense. If you look at anything from the sinking of the Maine to the gulf of Tonkin incident or the laughable WMDs in Iraq affair you'll see a pattern.

America has killed millions simply to further its goals. It will happen again too. The west is lucky Putin is in power. I hear Medvedev would not be so restrained and if I myself were Putin certain things would be very different.

BTW. In Aug 08 it was not Putin who ordered the attack on Georgia. It was Medvedev. Sadly I think that with the Ukraine a line was crossed and now Russia has little choice but to prepare for what may be inevitable. It's practically the same situation that it was in Germany in the 1930s.
Medvedev was never in power. He was just a figurehead set up to preserve at least a superficial semblance of lawful elections. Putin has openly admitted later that he and Medvedev agreed in advance for a one term position swap to justify constitutional requirements. Of course it was only a position swap, not a real power swap.

Have you been to Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary or the Baltic states recently? I think they would agree that the situation looks terribly similar to the late 1930s. Except the Ukraine is the new Czechoslovakia and it's not the West they're all worried about.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:19 AM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
To a blind patriot like you who chooses to only see one side of the situation of course it doesn't make sense.
Ehm - I'm not American. (The username clues most people in.) And Russia's ambassador to my country decided to throw a fit when we had the nerve to upgrade the radars on our Navy's ships - even declared they would "become nuclear targets". Diplomacy means something else in Russian, I guess.

If Russia wants to rattle sabers again, well - too bad, it would have been rather nice not to. But throwing a fit that a system that can stop IRBMs is "aggressive" is not going to win anyone over. The missiles being deployed in Romania are SM-3s, very useful for stopping rockets and planes, not much else. Or, to quote your own OP, my bolding:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
The US is placing the first portions of the AMD system in Eastern Europe. This is not intended to protect Europe from the likes of Iran. It's to protect Europe from Russian intermediate range missiles.
If Russia has a problem with that, the question is: Why is it so important to have the the option to operate missiles in airspace that isn't theirs?
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:43 AM
 
6,997 posts, read 6,632,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Limiting the ability of Russian missiles to strike at Europe is a threat to Russia, what's hard to understand here ? How else is Russia supposed to conduct it's foreign policy if not under the threat of a nuclear strike ? Just ask North Korea.
It has little to do with Europe. The forward missile batteries can intercept intercontinental missiles before they can employ countermeasures to missile defense based in the US, such as re-targeting, decoys, etc.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
8,608 posts, read 2,904,307 times
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Italy, France and the UK have developed Aster, a sea borne and land based Anti Ballistic Missile System. The UK has already tested Sea Viper (Aster 30) on it's Type 45 Destroyers and also plans to deploy it on Type 26 Frigates. The new Samson Radar System is also becoming operatrional and the UK's Ballistic Missile Radar Systems are being upgraded as announced in last years Defence Review.

Sampson radar - UK pursues at-sea missile defence capabilities - Naval Technology

Raytheon UK: Homeland protection - Missile defence systems poised to bring safety to allies
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 6,825,417 times
Reputation: 37337
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
It has little to do with Europe. The forward missile batteries can intercept intercontinental missiles before they can employ countermeasures to missile defense based in the US, such as re-targeting, decoys, etc.
Sure, for small-scale launches. But not for the thousands of warheads that Russia is capable of launching. That's the great limitation of missile defense. It has a utility against powers that can only put a small number of missiles in the air, but is easily overwhelmed by simply throwing more ICMBs in the air. And in nuclear warfare, if 'just a few' city-busters get through, you lose. That's the nuclear trump card.

Anyway, many Russian ICBM launch sites aren't based near the western Russian frontier. They're in the north, or several times zones to the east - the missile flight-paths to North America would go nowhere near any Aegis systems stationed in Europe.

Furthermore, the Russians have a nuclear triad just like the United States - they have aircraft- and submarine-based launch platforms. The latter are particularly effective as they are extremely difficult to defend against.

So, sure, while the Aegis systems could conceivably pick off a few Russian nukes if they decided to launch, the idea that it makes Russia vulnerable by somehow mitigating its second-strike capability is simply wrong. Whether the Russians were able to put, say, 1000 or even 500 nukes on American targets instead of 2000 nukes (and those numbers vastly overstate the capabilities of missile defense) doesn't change the fact that the American state would be destroyed either way. The strategic deterrence of Russia's nuclear triad remains fully intact.

Russia's complaints over the Aegis have nothing to do with its tactical capacity or its strategic effect.
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,227 posts, read 559,303 times
Reputation: 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
I met some Russian ex pats in Cyprus last year, to say they dislike Putin is an understatement. They have seen their savings all but destroyed due to Putin's misjudged actions in Ukraine and Russia's economic meltdown.

I asked them why Putin was still so popular with the Russian people and one of them said, the Russian people are like mushrooms, they are kept in the dark and are fed plenty of s..t, as long as the price of Vodka stays low they are happy.
Typical Russian expat thinking unfortunately. As soon as they leave, they start badmouthing their former fellow countrymen.
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:59 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,473,086 times
Reputation: 15430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
Typical Russian expat thinking unfortunately. As soon as they leave, they start badmouthing their former fellow countrymen.
But are they wrong?
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