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Old 05-24-2016, 09:03 PM
 
Location: la la land
27,179 posts, read 11,349,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
You know... that is already illegal. If these employees cannot defend themselves enough to push through a complaint against that illegal practice, they are not going to be able to push through a complaint about being illegally classified as exempt and this real revision will mean nothing to them anyway.
huh? how do non-unionized employees defend themselves? If they complain they get fired. This practice is widespread in fast food and to a lesser extent in retail and has been for 40 years. Didn't you ever wonder why a small McDonald's franchise has so many managers? Shift manager, night manager, kitchen manager, front counter manager etc. It's because all of those people are on salary and they can work them 60 hours a week without paying overtime and end up paying them less than minimum wage.

The whole point in making the new salary requirement over 40k is to make it high enough that businesses stop pulling this crap.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:37 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,590,732 times
Reputation: 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
No, it is not already illegal.
It is probably not true in every state, but in nearly every state salaried employees must be paid an equivalent hourly wage above the state minimum wage. (They are not required to be paid federal minimum wage.)

Again, employees who cannot fight against that aspect of an illegal wage (or really, illegal number of hours for their salary) are not going to fight back against because illegally classified as exempt in the first place.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:45 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,590,732 times
Reputation: 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
huh? how do non-unionized employees defend themselves? If they complain they get fired. This practice is widespread in fast food and to a lesser extent in retail and has been for 40 years. Didn't you ever wonder why a small McDonald's franchise has so many managers? Shift manager, night manager, kitchen manager, front counter manager etc. It's because all of those people are on salary and they can work them 60 hours a week without paying overtime and end up paying them less than minimum wage.

The whole point in making the new salary requirement over 40k is to make it high enough that businesses stop pulling this crap.
I think you are missing what I am saying. Employers will already classify their managers as exempt and pay them less than minimum wage will continue to pay managers under $40k and classify them as exempt and not pay them overtime anyways.

Nearly all of those "manager" positions fail the duties test to be exempt already, and this has not stopped them being classified as exempt. They also frequently fail the timecard test too; they are not paid for a full week when they only work a partial week. And still they are classified by the employers as exempt. Changing the salary floor will not stop this practice. (I suspect employers will just tell their managers that the full value of benefits and potential bonuses count towards the floor.)
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Oxford, CT
3,556 posts, read 2,322,427 times
Reputation: 2898
A DOL audit will be a pretty nasty thing to get then!
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:59 AM
 
7,045 posts, read 3,701,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
I think you are missing what I am saying. Employers will already classify their managers as exempt and pay them less than minimum wage will continue to pay managers under $40k and classify them as exempt and not pay them overtime anyways.

Nearly all of those "manager" positions fail the duties test to be exempt already, and this has not stopped them being classified as exempt. They also frequently fail the timecard test too; they are not paid for a full week when they only work a partial week. And still they are classified by the employers as exempt. Changing the salary floor will not stop this practice. (I suspect employers will just tell their managers that the full value of benefits and potential bonuses count towards the floor.)
And I disagree. Classification of employee is a matter of interpretation and rather difficult to monitor and prosecute. Paying OT or not based on salary level is mathematical and can be automated. What is the "salary" is not up to an employer to interpret based on benefits and "potential" bonuses, it's what they report to IRS and SSA as gross wages.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,179 posts, read 11,349,748 times
Reputation: 19278
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
It is probably not true in every state, but in nearly every state salaried employees must be paid an equivalent hourly wage above the state minimum wage. (They are not required to be paid federal minimum wage.)
You're right, there are states that have laws that require an exempt salary to be set at a threshold higher than the minimum wage, in California it is twice the minimum wage of a full time employee or $41,600. But right next door in Nevada the exempt salary is set at the federal rate of $455 a week. The minimum wage in Nevada is $8.25 (less if employer doesn't offer health insurance) So an exempt employee in Nevada working 60 hours a week will get paid the equivalent of $7.55 an hour or 70 cents less than minimum wage. I bet with the change you will see fewer 'supervisors' in Casinos.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:37 AM
 
5,605 posts, read 4,159,335 times
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One of 2 things will happen in my company (per the corporate website):


1. A salaried employee at or below the new threshold may be reclassified from salaried to hourly and will have to start clocking in and out so overtime can be easily tracked and paid.


OR

2. They may receive an increase in pay that maintains their overtime exempt status.

The company will decide which solution is applied to each employee effected, employees will not have the ability to choose which option they prefer. I assume they will figure out what employees are in rolls where overtime work is regularly needed and which aren't and make the decision that is likely to cost the company less over time.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:42 AM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
So I guess putting employees on a salary so they are exempt from overtime and then working them so many hours that they are earning less than minimum wage is perfectly ok with you? Sort of figures...
Yes it is OK with me, because it is obviously OK with them. Those employees aren't slaves, so they are not "put" on anything. They agreed to the terms of their employment.

Why don't we let the salary and hours decisions be made by the people involved?

I know, you hate business owners, and think they deserve to lose their hard-earned businesses when the government changes the rules arbitrarily all of a sudden, based solely on feelings and popular opinion.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:46 AM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
huh? how do non-unionized employees defend themselves? If they complain they get fired. This practice is widespread in fast food and to a lesser extent in retail and has been for 40 years. Didn't you ever wonder why a small McDonald's franchise has so many managers? Shift manager, night manager, kitchen manager, front counter manager etc. It's because all of those people are on salary and they can work them 60 hours a week without paying overtime and end up paying them less than minimum wage.

The whole point in making the new salary requirement over 40k is to make it high enough that businesses stop pulling this crap.
89% of workers in this country are non-union, yet they manage to defend themselves just fine.

I have no problem with this new law, personally. It will just weed out the lazy and entitled that are currently shrieking about their low wages - they'll be the first to go.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:36 AM
 
7,045 posts, read 3,701,331 times
Reputation: 10061
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Yes it is OK with me, because it is obviously OK with them. Those employees aren't slaves, so they are not "put" on anything. They agreed to the terms of their employment.
It's not ok with them, they just don't individually have the leverage to do anything about it that doesn't cost them their job. Where they can unionize, they speak through their union. Where they cannot, they speak collectively through their representatives in government. Thus, labor laws.
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