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Old 05-25-2016, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
9,451 posts, read 7,600,059 times
Reputation: 6013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
I'm sure many plantation owners were distraught over the loss of unpaid slave labor and worried how they were ever going to maintain their mansions if they had to actually pay for the labor of others. How dare the government interfere with the free market and their right to imprison darker skinned people and work them 16 hours a day for a cup of rice!
That never happened. Owning slaves is like owning expensive farm equipment. You have to take care of it.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:18 PM
 
15,387 posts, read 8,686,874 times
Reputation: 13775
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
It's not ok with them, they just don't individually have the leverage to do anything about it that doesn't cost them their job. Where they can unionize, they speak through their union. Where they cannot, they speak collectively through their representatives in government. Thus, labor laws.
If they have to prostitute themselves to keep a job, and have zero leverage, then that speaks to their skills, education and work ethic. Which is a completely different topic.

Unions only protect the lazy and inept. While not every person in a union is one of those things, the person in a union that is not protected is the hard worker. When your hard work gets you NO leverage, but managing to keep your job no matter your performance does, you've now sold yourself out. As for "speaking through a union", I guess you could call it that. I prefer to call it extortion and bullying.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:02 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,593,280 times
Reputation: 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
And I disagree. Classification of employee is a matter of interpretation and rather difficult to monitor and prosecute. Paying OT or not based on salary level is mathematical and can be automated. What is the "salary" is not up to an employer to interpret based on benefits and "potential" bonuses, it's what they report to IRS and SSA as gross wages.
The new rules allow employers to count bonuses and certain benefits as part of salary.

More importantly though, employers do not report exempt status or hours worked to anyone. So, they could be working a manager paid under $40k 60 hrs a week without overtime, and dutifully reporting that $40k in wages to the IRS and SSA. But no one at the IRS or SSA has any idea that the employee is being misclassified as exempt nor that they are working more than 40 hours a week.
The employer has to keep their own records, but no one from the DoL or other agencies look at those records until a classification complaint is made.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:16 PM
 
7,073 posts, read 3,706,529 times
Reputation: 10072
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
The new rules allow employers to count bonuses and certain benefits as part of salary.
Reference?
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:23 PM
 
7,073 posts, read 3,706,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
If they have to prostitute themselves to keep a job, and have zero leverage, then that speaks to their skills, education and work ethic. Which is a completely different topic.
That speaks to life itself. It's called exploitation. People will exploit others to the extent that they can, sometimes legal and sometimes not. That's why we have laws to limit the exploitation.

And people will do what they have to do. If you have 4 kids to take care of and living paycheck to paycheck (as most making under $40K do), you will put up with more crap than if you are single and have $100K in the bank.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:16 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,593,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Reference?
The bonus part is pretty clear in the charts:
https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/final2016/faq.htm#8
"Up to 10% of standard salary level can come from non-discretionary bonuses, incentive payments, and commissions, paid at least quarterly."
I would have to dig through the federal register to find the new total annual compensation definition. The benefits that were included were strange ones (not things like health insurance or retirement benefits). They had to be benefits that were pegged to on the job performance similar to commissions.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
9,451 posts, read 7,600,059 times
Reputation: 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
That speaks to life itself. It's called exploitation. People will exploit others to the extent that they can, sometimes legal and sometimes not. That's why we have laws to limit the exploitation.

And people will do what they have to do. If you have 4 kids to take care of and living paycheck to paycheck (as most making under $40K do), you will put up with more crap than if you are single and have $100K in the bank.

Sounds like someone living beyond their means.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:15 AM
 
7,073 posts, read 3,706,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Sounds like someone living beyond their means.
90% of the world must be living beyond their means. You obviously are out of touch with the poor.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:24 AM
 
7,073 posts, read 3,706,529 times
Reputation: 10072
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
The bonus part is pretty clear in the charts:
https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/final2016/faq.htm#8
"Up to 10% of standard salary level can come from non-discretionary bonuses, incentive payments, and commissions, paid at least quarterly."
I would have to dig through the federal register to find the new total annual compensation definition. The benefits that were included were strange ones (not things like health insurance or retirement benefits). They had to be benefits that were pegged to on the job performance similar to commissions.
All of which are reportable as income. You seemed earlier to imply they could inflate a low salary to the threshold by ballooning it with the "full value of benefits and potential bonuses". And that is just not true. Benefits such as health insurance and vacation are clearly not included. And bonuses must actually be paid, not "potential". Bottom line - the employee must be paid $47500 to meet the threshold, however you break it down. Call it $40salary/$7bonus, or $35salary/$7bonus/$5comm, or whatever. You aren't going to pay $30K and inflate it to $47.5 by making up numbers for non-income benefits.
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Old 05-26-2016, 07:44 AM
 
15,387 posts, read 8,686,874 times
Reputation: 13775
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
That speaks to life itself. It's called exploitation. People will exploit others to the extent that they can, sometimes legal and sometimes not. That's why we have laws to limit the exploitation.

And people will do what they have to do. If you have 4 kids to take care of and living paycheck to paycheck (as most making under $40K do), you will put up with more crap than if you are single and have $100K in the bank.
Of course you have to put up with more crap. That's the cost of stupid life decisions.
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