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Old 05-27-2016, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,487 posts, read 26,089,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildColonialGirl View Post
And when we vaccinate ourselves against E. coli and all drop dead because they're vital to our survival?

The problem is that bacteria are slutty horizontal gene sharers, and swap their resistance genes back and forth. And you feeding antibiotics to healthy animals just to make them grow bigger are the biggest part of the problem.
Maybe you missed that the vaccine enabled Larry to avoid giving antibiotics? If the vaccine is strain specific it will not affect the "good guys".

Study: E. Coli Cattle Vaccination Could Prevent 83 Percent of Human Cases | Food Safety News

The net effect would be less antibiotic use in animals and humans.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:09 PM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,483 posts, read 1,708,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernTiger099 View Post
I'm not that scared yet. It's resilient to all antibiotics that already exist, so if we invent and develop more, we can kill it.
have you looked at the development pipeline for antibiotics?

I don't think there's much out there.

In addition to the bleak future for antibiotics, please don't forget that bringing any drug to market can take something like 10 years from development through human testing.

Yes the can fast track a drug, but 3-5 years is still a long time.
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Old 05-28-2016, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
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Few New Drugs: Why the Antibiotic Pipeline Is Running Dry

Once again it all comes down to $$. We overuse antibiotics to make money, we underproduce antibiotics because they don't make money. It's a bad combination for the middle man which happens to be the consumer on both ends. Capitalism has its side effects.
I suggest buying organic, antibiotic free food. The more we buy, the less expensive it will become.

Few New Drugs: Why the Antibiotic Pipeline Is Running Dry
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Old 05-28-2016, 08:51 AM
 
4,230 posts, read 5,737,784 times
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This is what happens when people become frequent customers of healthcare for silly stuff.
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Old 05-28-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
This is what happens when people become frequent customers of healthcare for silly stuff.
I agree. My mother-in-law frightens me with her use (or misuse) of antibiotics for ever little perceived infection. It's cultural for her. Her age group cant imagine waiting 3 days for a UTI to play itself out naturally.

I have a 'little person' friend who is wheelchair-bound publicly. Although her legs are useless for walking, its amazing how well she can scoot around in her own home. She has been forced to ride out UTI's, with simply drinking plenty of water and waiting, due to the fact she brought herself into the realm of only having 1 antibiotic left at her disposal. Her doctor advised riding out the UTIs, rather than use the 1 she had left, just incase she should contract a more serious infection that she would really need it for.

I rarely get UTIs. I drink 100% cranberry juice mixed with a good amount of water daily. I have a whole passel of antibiotics at my disposal, because I rarely take them. I am allergic to penicillin, but those who aren't should ask their doctor for it.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
13,023 posts, read 7,196,376 times
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[quote=SouthernTiger099;44203908]I'm not that scared yet. It's resilient to all antibiotics that already exist, so if we invent and develop more, we can kill it.



I wish I had your optimism. Mine has been destroyed after doing battle with something I picked up over ten years ago. I've been on just about everything oral but not IV yet and it never dies. I stay on antibiotics for three months at a time. One has a warning on the label that states that it may cause death. Great. I've been on that one twice with little relief.

It's been a miserable ten year battle with something that has drastically altered my quality of life. Summer and I have not been friends for over a decade now. It's some what under control now but I have to do something for it on a daily basis and rotate what I use OTC frequently.

I am so glad that I am out of health care now. It's a very dangerous job, and my job meant that I was on the front line dealing with patients that may soon be in isolation the next day. I see a time when all health care workers will walk around covered from head to toe with every patient. It's not always that easy during an emergency situation when every second counts.

Dealing with this misery for ten years and counting has taken away any hope of my ever getting rid of it. I try not to let it depress me to the point that I don't want to live with it, but I've been there a couple of times. It is what it is. There are good days and bad days.

You keep your fingers crossed for me SouthernTiger, and please stay out of the hospital. They're very scary places.

Maybe something is on the horizon for me, but it could take many many more years before anyone comes up with a solution for me. I'm in pain right now. I don't want to think in terms of more years. A decade is way too long to suffer like this don't ya think?
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,487 posts, read 26,089,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
There is also the resurgence of 'antibacterial' soaps, hand sanitizers and cleaners. In the 80's they said to stop using them as eventually it would create a super virus. Now, we are back to 'antibacterial' everything for at least a decade.

I guess this is one instance were we can say we have watched history repeat itself.
Anything "antibacterial" is not going to do a thing to any virus. It is not necessary to routinely use antimicrobial products, including soaps. Alcohol based hand sanitizers are useful. They can reduce transmission of some (not all) infectious diseases in situations where hand washing is not practical, and bacteria do not develop resistance to them, though there are a few organisms that are naturally resistant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I agree. My mother-in-law frightens me with her use (or misuse) of antibiotics for ever little perceived infection. It's cultural for her. Her age group cant imagine waiting 3 days for a UTI to play itself out naturally.

I have a 'little person' friend who is wheelchair-bound publicly. Although her legs are useless for walking, its amazing how well she can scoot around in her own home. She has been forced to ride out UTI's, with simply drinking plenty of water and waiting, due to the fact she brought herself into the realm of only having 1 antibiotic left at her disposal. Her doctor advised riding out the UTIs, rather than use the 1 she had left, just incase she should contract a more serious infection that she would really need it for.

I rarely get UTIs. I drink 100% cranberry juice mixed with a good amount of water daily. I have a whole passel of antibiotics at my disposal, because I rarely take them. I am allergic to penicillin, but those who aren't should ask their doctor for it.
Allowing a simple bladder infection to "play itself out" can result in a kidney infection, which may result in hospitalization and may produce chronic kidney damage. However, it is possible for urine to contain bacteria without causing any symptoms, and patients who are repeatedly colonized may not need treatment. Cranberry juice may indeed help reduce the risk of getting urinary infections, but it will not treat one that is established. I do not know many doctors who would expect a patient to just suffer through a painful UTI.

Please note that patients do not become "resistant" or "immune" to antibiotics. Bacteria do. Unless your friend is truly allergic to all but one antibiotic - which would be virtually impossible - there is more than one that can be used, and the choice should be made based on a culture and testing the bacteria to see which antibiotics the organism is sensitive to. You cannot just ask for penicillin because even if you are not allergic to it there are many infections that it will not treat.

Although antibiotics should not be used willy nilly, not using them when they are indicated is unwise. Untreated strep infections can lead to rheumatic fever and chronic kidney damage. Some infections will be fatal if not treated. We need to be good stewards of our antibiotics. That does not mean we should not use them at all.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
13,023 posts, read 7,196,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Natural things and vitamins might be better fighting this Suzy..

HIGH DOSAGE VIT-C,VIT D .. CANNIBUS OIL,MMS ... Alot better things in this world to use than big pharma garbage that has an agenda....

Sorry dear one, but no way. I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars with an actual Chinese physician with alternative medicine. Our China Town is a very dangerous place yet I went there every week for months. It was all in vain. Vitamins? Don't make me laugh. These are serious bugs.

Would you try to cure Ebola with vitamins? These bugs are not a serious as Ebola, but still very dangerous.
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,045 posts, read 11,455,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I doubt you can rely on vaccines either Larry. Everytime they release a flu vaccine its hit or miss whether it will be the strain that becomes predominant in a given 'herd' of people.

On the other hand, if a cow dies from a vaccine there wont be much uproar about it, except maybe from ranchers. If a person dies, its a whole nother ball game.

Medicine is catching up though. They are even developing vaccines for cancer. Time will tell if cancers will evolve to thwart these vaccines, or if they even really work over the long haul.
I never observed an adverse vaccine reaction in animals. The flu is a virus, and I don't know of any local labs that are manufacturing strain-specific antiviral vaccines. Antibiotics have no effect on virus infections in any case.

Bacteria are easy to culture and bacterin vaccines are easy to manufacture. There are dozens of labs in the USA that can produce strain-specific bacterin vaccines. That's why you collect your own samples on your farm, freeze them and overnight them to the lab on dry ice. Strain-specific is very important. They are just not available for humans because nobody wants to pay for the clinical trials. With animals, if they don't get sick from the vaccine they are safe enough. The vaccines are not cheap, but when you put them against a sick animal that requires treatment and the possibility of reinfection, they are an excellent option.

You could be vaccinated for most life threatening infections. The vaccines were never developed because antibiotics were easier. If antibiotics quit working, we still have options. We won't go back to the days of poultices and amputations.
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Old 05-28-2016, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,522,928 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
I never observed an adverse vaccine reaction in animals. The flu is a virus, and I don't know of any local labs that are manufacturing strain-specific antiviral vaccines. Antibiotics have no effect on virus infections in any case.

Bacteria are easy to culture and bacterin vaccines are easy to manufacture. There are dozens of labs in the USA that can produce strain-specific bacterin vaccines. That's why you collect your own samples on your farm, freeze them and overnight them to the lab on dry ice. Strain-specific is very important. They are just not available for humans because nobody wants to pay for the clinical trials. With animals, if they don't get sick from the vaccine they are safe enough. The vaccines are not cheap, but when you put them against a sick animal that requires treatment and the possibility of reinfection, they are an excellent option.

You could be vaccinated for most life threatening infections. The vaccines were never developed because antibiotics were easier. If antibiotics quit working, we still have options. We won't go back to the days of poultices and amputations.
I believe you, Larry. I have observed adverse reactions in dogs and cats to the rabies vaccine. To be fair, since it is not cost effect to give animals titers to see if they are still immune year to year, and dosages are not administered by weight (an 8 lb pet receives the same dose as an 80 lb pet), its easy to speculate why that happens.

I know the flu is a virus and antibiotics have no effect, but it is the first people vaccine that came to mind since it is so prevalent in our society today. They take an educated guess annually to decide which strain of flu they will be dealing with - and its proven to be a hit or miss effort. I have had adverse reactions to them, but I'm still alive. I was vaccinated against Hep B, which was not fun, but moreover, for some reason the immunity did not last long. Ive known others that also showed no immunity after being vaccinated for that virus.

Its interesting the term vaccine stems from cows. I'm happy to hear cows have no issue with them. Other creatures are not so lucky as your cows though.

Its also interesting that 40 years after being vaccinated for many childhood diseases, and happening to contract the diseases anyway, titers show I am still immune to them. Whether that is because of the vaccine, or the natural immunity acquired from getting the diseases anyway, is anyone's guess.

I am not anti-vaccination, but I don't think they are for everyone based on my personal experience.

There was a recent incident in Mexico, where 59 kids were given common vaccines, and 75% of them died. There was also an incident in Africa. The anti-vaxxers have renewed vigor, and the pro-vaxxers claim it wasn't the vaccines. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps the human science needs to catch up.

Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 05-28-2016 at 03:16 PM..
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