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Old 06-16-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
12,131 posts, read 8,106,619 times
Reputation: 8609

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Good point.

So be on the lookout for jaguars next time you visit northeastern Florida!


We live in South Georgia at the moment. We drive down to Jax beach every so often.


I used to live in Orlando & it wasn't uncommon to see BIG snakes even in crowded areas, while it wasn't on a daily bases it was no surprise either.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,691 posts, read 1,037,665 times
Reputation: 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
To me, none of these specifics matter. What matters to me is this--a child waded in water IN DISNEYLAND, and an animal killed it. The parents weren't negligent, they were right there. Things happen. Anyone that says "I'd never leave my child alone for a second" is a LIAR. There is NO WAY a parent can watch their child 24/7, and even if you could you'd ruin them over the long term--and besides I sure wouldn't expect an alligator to show up IN DISNEYLAND.

Frankly, I could give a rip less about that stupid alligator's feelings, or the feelings of the tree huggers of the world who get all teary-eyed over a stupid reptile. Not only should that particular alligator be shot, I think they should shoot ALL OF THEM in Florida that are inhabiting the lakes and such that people could otherwise be swimming in, or at the least move them to a refuge where they can live but not bother anybody. It's not our fault that alligators can't match our firepower if we really step up and do what we have to do, hunt the darned things until their numbers are 2% of what they are now, and we have every right to protect ourselves. Why SHOULDN'T we kill the darned things if they're doing things like this? I would kill a poisonous snake IN A MINUTE on my property if I found one, to me an alligator is no different. I'd shoot a large dog in a minute JUST FOR BEING ON MY PROPERTY if I felt it was as danger to my kids and the owner, if he/she was around, wasn't doing what they could to keep their animal off of my property. That dog has NO RIGHTS over here and they're not welcome here.

We're not obligated to hole ourselves up in our homes and let alligators or pythons or spotted owls or whatever just own the whole planet. We humans have an adventurous spirit and we like getting out and enjoying the outdoors, and we have every moral right to protect ourselves by any means necessary vs "letting nature be nature" and that leading to things like this happening at which point we shrug our shoulders and say something stupid like "well we were in THEIR territory." No, the ENTIRE PLANET IS OURS to do with what the heck we please, there are wildlife refuges for the animals, and any animals that threaten us where we go to enjoy ourselves--SCREW THEM. They can be relocated to a refuge, develop the sense to leave us alone, or they can be taken out like the vermin they are.
You have a really bad entitlement problem. You may *want* to swim in all the lakes that are out there, but you do not have the right to do so entirely risk-free. You want risk-free, then go to a public swimming pool. You want to swim in a natural lake, then you need to accept there are animals living there who may not be inclined to be friendly. And no, you do not have the right to demand they all be exterminated so you can do as you please with no risk. You want the great outdoors, then fine--then you better man up and accept the great outdoors comes with the not-so-cuddly and cute. Your 'adventurous spirit' that you so loudly tout about seems to come to a screeching halt when confronted by anything potentially dangerous. Well, potential risk is part of the adventure.

Hate to tell you this, but we *do* need the other critters on this planet for various purposes. We may be the dominant species, but if we all keep up your attitude, it's gonna bite us in the ass in the long run.

Judging from this and your previous posts on other subjects, I can't decide if you're a Troll Extraordinaire or some idiot with severe mental problems.

Last edited by Indigo Cardinal; 06-16-2016 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Groveland, FL
1,268 posts, read 2,023,223 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
To me, none of these specifics matter. What matters to me is this--a child waded in water IN DISNEYLAND, and an animal killed it. The parents weren't negligent, they were right there. Things happen. Anyone that says "I'd never leave my child alone for a second" is a LIAR. There is NO WAY a parent can watch their child 24/7, and even if you could you'd ruin them over the long term--and besides I sure wouldn't expect an alligator to show up IN DISNEYLAND.
Okay, I ignored it in your first post thinking it was just a typo, but now you've done it twice more. Disneyland is in California, and Disney World is in Orlando.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,785 posts, read 8,765,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
My original thought was "what were the parents thinking?". But then I realized my knowledge of gators is from visiting, having family there and a sibling who went to UF. If you never visit Florida, you likely wouldn't know that gators can get into even man made lakes, that they can lunge onto the shore from out of nowhere, and that their most likely to "strike" after dusk. Look at the comments - there are people suggesting this is a hoax because the boy's body was intact. So obviously some have no idea that they roll and drown their victims and store them for later.

In addition, Disney is a separate world from the rest of Orlando. They go out of their way to make things "perfect" and their attention to every detail is amazing. They are considered an extremely safe place for children. Putting up signs (like the ones they have in Gainesville) warning of potential alligators isn't too much to ask. I guess I've realize that while some of us know why the "No Swimming" signs are up; others don't.
I agree.

There is a big difference between "no swimming" and "beware alligators". Had the parents suspected alligators were there, I don't think they would have allowed the kids anywhere near there.

I'm not from Florida, but travel throughout Florida. One of the first things I do is look for warnings and talk to locals. For example, I didn't realize man o'wars were found in Florida until I was on a beach, saw a purple flag (which I'd never seen before ) and read the warnings. I'd never know about the stingray shuffle if I hadn't seen a sign.

In my area, a no swimming sign means 1)private property or 2)no lifeguard is on duty. If there are other dangers (like rip currents, for example) we have signage that states the specific danger.

I've taken my kids to Disney many times. Disney World is like a whole other world. Disney works hard to cultivate the illusion of the perfect place. It would never occur to me that there are alligators in those man-made lakes. I do let my guard down a little in Disney in that I don't ask locals about hazards (which is something I do whenever I travel)--mainly b/c its hard to find locals in DisneyWorld. But Disney encourages this mind-set.

I hate to say this, but I have to wonder if Disney didn't put any signage up indicating alligators because that would sort of mar the Disney image. You know, it sort of ruins that image of the happiest place on Earth if you mention death by alligator as a real risk.

As an aside, I was at Animal Kingdom and saw someone removing a venomous snake from the property (I asked). It was done very quickly and quietly. I hadn't even thought about venomous snakes although it does make sense.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,298 posts, read 3,479,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
Even if they didn't read the sign everyone KNOWS that Florida is filled the snakes & Alligators. How can you not know that? Everyone watches the Animal Planet channel.
Of course there are alligators and venomous snakes in Florida. They're in the Everglades. Everybody knows that.

You VASTLY overestimate the average visitor's knowledge of Florida ecology. And most people who aren't very familiar with Florida are not going to assume that there could be alligators in the water of a highly-managed resort park that specifically caters to families with young children. That's precisely why a sign warning park visitors about alligators would be appropriate: because the visors are arriving with incorrect assumptions which could get them hurt.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:19 AM
 
23,906 posts, read 31,137,585 times
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Deer here are immensely overpopulated and as such, cause TONS of accidents - my sister has hit two with the same damn car. Hell I know many many people that have. I have had many close calls. During mating season, it's just about impossible to not have a near miss around here. Deer crossing signs help people remember and to be more watchful. At least that's the hope. An alligator warning sign is a dang no-brainer. Pretty sure Disney will be making some changes.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Groveland, FL
1,268 posts, read 2,023,223 times
Reputation: 1754
I don't remember seeing anybody post about it here, but if the signs said 'no swimming', why did the mother get the attention of a life guard to try to save the baby? Why would a lifeguard be close by if you're prohibited from swimming? They've failed to address that question in the articles and video clips I've seen in the news thus far.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,785 posts, read 8,765,275 times
Reputation: 7334
Also, can alligators come from the water on the sand? Just wondering because that beach looks very inviting. Why bother to create a beach that will attract people, if the gators are that dangerous?

In other words, is the fact that the boy was on the edge of the water that relevant to gator behavior? Is there a likelihood that he could have been attacked even if he'd been on the beach?
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,691 posts, read 1,037,665 times
Reputation: 3520
My two cents.....I think this was just a simple tragedy, with no blame to be passed on anybody.

I don't think Disney was aware that alligators had gotten that far in (judging from the news reports, they've found four gators in the lagoon, and that seems to have shocked people.) I also don't think the parents were complete idiots in their part.

Unfortunately, critters find their way into places you wouldn't think they'd go--not long after I moved to Colorado, there were news reports of a bear wandering downtown Denver. I lived in a highly congested area of Denver, and my neighbors reported coyotes running down our streets at dusk. If a bear gets all the way to downtown Denver, then an alligator can certainly make its way to a man-made lake in a resort area.

It was unexpected by all parties, and wound up in tragedy. But I really don't think anybody could have prevented it.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
12,131 posts, read 8,106,619 times
Reputation: 8609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Of course there are alligators and venomous snakes in Florida. They're in the Everglades. Everybody knows that.

You VASTLY overestimate the average visitor's knowledge of Florida ecology. And most people who aren't very familiar with Florida are not going to assume that there could be alligators in the water of a highly-managed resort park that specifically caters to families with young children. That's precisely why a sign warning park visitors about alligators would be appropriate: because the visors are arriving with incorrect assumptions which could get them hurt.




Even still when you take your child out to any where it is THIER responsibility to make sure they are safe.
Not the park, not the grocery store not the mall.


How many signs do we need for people to understand that no one is responsible for your kids but you?
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