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Old 06-20-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,203 posts, read 49,740,662 times
Reputation: 66975

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
I picture you as a sort of manifest destiny kind of guy; as in, humans have a God-given right to explore and conquer new lands, regardless of who or what may already be living in those lands. Very human-centric way of viewing the world. Again, out of all the so-called vicious animals out there, humans have proven themselves to be the most vicious, over and over again.
Yup.

And these are the kind of people who quickly and easily descend into dehumanizing other people who don't look like him, share his beliefs, etc.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,297 posts, read 3,474,966 times
Reputation: 14916
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
Humans enter wild animal territory...
And occasionally wild animals enter human territory. And VERY occasionally when they do, they attack people. This is one of those cases.

As long as we have wild mountain lions, we're going to have occasions when a lion walks into a city or a suburban backyard. The only way to reduce that risk to zero would be to make mountain lions extinct in the wild, and I don't think most people want to see that happen.

(Ditto bears, wolves, coyotes, alligators, venomous snakes, etc.)
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:17 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 3,754,809 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandon View Post
Me as well. In fact, I think his neighbor showed great restraint. I would have burned his house down for shooting MY dog. THEN went after the sherif for his "approval".
Then keep your danged dog out of MY yard. (Keep them quiet, too.) Is it REALLY that freaking hard to understand and do? Your dog doesn't have my permission to trespass into MY land. Keep it out of here, and it won't come to that--and no, I'M NOT BUILDING A FENCE. That costs a lot and eats up a lot of my time I could be spending enjoying the lake. I didn't bring the dog into the neighborhood, why should I have to be the one to pay to keep them out? Gee freaking whiz.

Same goes for ANY animal that trespasses into MY land--yes, even if I moved there knowing they were in the area. Yes, humans absolutely have a "manifest destiny." I mean, come on. "Go to the mall" or such? Please. The animals have their wildlife preserves.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:23 PM
 
570 posts, read 375,522 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
You're right. Bears and mountain lions attacked lots of Americans in the 1800's that we've never tracked. If we ever could know that number, it surely would be higher than it is today.
Hence the point of this thread.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
20,861 posts, read 22,433,523 times
Reputation: 32599
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Then keep your danged dog out of MY yard. (Keep them quiet, too.) Is it REALLY that freaking hard to understand and do? Your dog doesn't have my permission to trespass into MY land. Keep it out of here, and it won't come to that--and no, I'M NOT BUILDING A FENCE. That costs a lot and eats up a lot of my time I could be spending enjoying the lake. I didn't bring the dog into the neighborhood, why should I have to be the one to pay to keep them out? Gee freaking whiz.

Same goes for ANY animal that trespasses into MY land--yes, even if I moved there knowing they were in the area. Yes, humans absolutely have a "manifest destiny." I mean, come on. "Go to the mall" or such? Please. The animals have their wildlife preserves.
An animal can't "trespass." It doesn't know trespass is. If people want to keep the animals out of their property, they do need to build fences because animals understand barriers as something they can't cross.

Humans are supposed to be more intelligent than animals. They are the ones who need to figure it out.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
1,695 posts, read 1,507,035 times
Reputation: 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Then keep your danged dog out of MY yard. (Keep them quiet, too.) Is it REALLY that freaking hard to understand and do? Your dog doesn't have my permission to trespass into MY land. Keep it out of here, and it won't come to that--and no, I'M NOT BUILDING A FENCE. That costs a lot and eats up a lot of my time I could be spending enjoying the lake. I didn't bring the dog into the neighborhood, why should I have to be the one to pay to keep them out? Gee freaking whiz.

Same goes for ANY animal that trespasses into MY land--yes, even if I moved there knowing they were in the area. Yes, humans absolutely have a "manifest destiny." I mean, come on. "Go to the mall" or such? Please. The animals have their wildlife preserves.
As long as I reserve the right to shoot your free range brats when they trespass into MY yard, we have a deal. And keep them from shrieking at 10:00 at night too, please and thanks.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,297 posts, read 3,474,966 times
Reputation: 14916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
An animal can't "trespass." It doesn't know trespass is. If people want to keep the animals out of their property, they do need to build fences because animals understand barriers as something they can't cross.
True, but in the case of domestic animals, the responsibility for keeping the animal confined falls onto the animal's owner. Person A should NOT have to build a fence to keep Person B's dog/cat/cow/horse/llama/etc. off his property. Person B should be the one building the fence to keep HIS animal on HIS property.

Wild animals, though, don't have a single identifiable owner. (They are owned collectively by all of us.) So if undesired wild animals are coming onto Person A's property, Person A may need to pony up the bucks for a fence. That's just how it goes.

Keeping the neighbor's dog off of your property and keeping the local deer out of your garden are two very different problems, even though they both involve animals where they shouldn't be.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:41 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 3,754,809 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandon View Post
As long as I reserve the right to shoot your free range brats when they trespass into MY yard, we have a deal. And keep them from shrieking at 10:00 at night too, please and thanks.
Nope, because children are more important than animals. Anyone who doesn't understand that is no better than Jeffrey Dahmer and, to be really blunt, deserves the same outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
An animal can't "trespass." It doesn't know trespass is. If people want to keep the animals out of their property, they do need to build fences because animals understand barriers as something they can't cross.

Humans are supposed to be more intelligent than animals. They are the ones who need to figure it out.
Yes they are, and that would be the OWNERS of the animals who need to figure it out. They're the ones that brought the animals into the area, it's on them. People on their own land have the right to be left alone and they shouldn't have to put any money or time into that on account of other people who are too lazy to get off their "gas" and handle their business. It is the absolute height of stupidity and lack of any sense of logic that blames someone for what I'd call "pest control" when the owner of the pest is the reason the pest is a pest to begin with.

As for wild animals, I agree that looks a bit different, but I STILL would say in response to those who say "you may have to pony up the bucks for a fence"--bullets are cheaper. If I have $15,000 or so sitting around cluttering up my safe and spending it on a fence would barely even notch a scratch on the money situation, that's OK and I'm happy to do it, but if it's like $15,000 is to most of us, I'm going with what's cheaper. I DON'T CARE that the animals "don't know any better," it's not my fault.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
1,695 posts, read 1,507,035 times
Reputation: 3289
Shyguy, you really need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

YOU think children are more important. Not everyone else does. My spirituality considers all life as equally sacred, and my beliefs don't require you to agree with me.
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,297 posts, read 3,474,966 times
Reputation: 14916
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
As for wild animals, I agree that looks a bit different, but I STILL would say in response to those who say "you may have to pony up the bucks for a fence"--bullets are cheaper.
Not when you figure in the whopping large fine you'll likely be paying for shooting an animal out of hunting season and/or without a hunting license.

Killing a dangerous wild animal in immediate defense of your life is OK (but you can expect to have to prove that you or your friend/family member was indeed in immediate danger). But most wild animals are under varying degrees of legal protection; you're not just free to shoot them "for trespassing" even if they are causing property damage. (There is a reason I used "deer in the garden" as my example of wild animal trespass in my post; anyone who's dealt with them knows they can cause a huge amount of damage to landscaping, but you CANNOT just shoot them to stop the problem. Your only legal recourse, is to change the landscaping, put up a fence, or (if you like venison) hunt them legally in season to help keep the population in check. And usually even if you choose option #3, you still need to choose option #1 or option #2 as well if you really value your garden.)
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