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Old 06-26-2016, 02:29 PM
 
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Reminds me of the decades-old conspiracy theory about a 'secret' Soviet tank division positioned in Mexico, waiting to roll north across our border. IIRC all the Jade Helm alarmists gave that tale a brief shot in the arm.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,436 posts, read 1,333,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post

Honduras and Guatamala are not economic powerhouses in the region (one or the other was the second poorest nation in the hemisphere, after DomRep) and are subject to externally-fomented instability.

.
You are thinking of Haiti, not the Dominican Republic. The D.R. is rich compared to Haiti.

And yes, Nicaragua has historically been one of the poorest countries in Latin America (and the Western Hemisphere). Though based on this survey from 2015 it was slightly less poor than its neighbor Honduras. Though both Nicaragua and Honduras are wealthier than Haiti.

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...-world?page=12
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 6,836,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
Been a hundred years since I was up to speed on that region (think Ollie North and the Sandanistas), but strategically I would think in terms of regional influence rather than an overt assault on Texas.

Honduras and Guatamala are not economic powerhouses in the region (one or the other was the second poorest nation in the hemisphere, after DomRep) and are subject to externally-fomented instability.
Honduras and Guatemala both have higher per capita GDPs than Nicaragua. Also, both countries have more people than Nicaragua - and thus more ability to spend on defense than Managua. Anyway, I'm not sure how having 50 T-72s for the Nicaraguan Army to drive around can 'foment instability' elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Haha, that's funny. BTW, can anyone explain why Ukraine and Romania should be in NATO anyway? It's not like they have coastline on the North Atlantic, or anything. What's the justification for that?
Do you really think the name of the organization has any relevance on which countries may join? That makes about as much sense as claiming that Hawaii should be allowed to be a member of the United States of America... because it is not located in the Americas.

FYI - Romania is in NATO because the other NATO states wanted it to be in NATO and because it wants to be in NATO. That's how it works. Ukraine is not a NATO member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The US needs to base aircraft there to operate its No-Fly Zone in Russia.


It doesn't surprise me in the least that you believe such nonsense.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Big Bayou
721 posts, read 219,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucifer View Post
State of Texas vs. 50 T-72 tanks?

I would actually buy the pay-per-view to see that.
Texas vs the tanks would be epic!
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,967 posts, read 1,195,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Could you elaborate on this please? This is news to me...
In the 1960s and early 1970s, the KGB ran a huge station out of the Soviet embassy in Mexico City. They recruited a large group of leftist Mexican students, sent many of them to school in Moscow (Patrice Lumumba U) and then covertly returned them to Mexico. Two groups were sent to North Korea for military training. The plot was to have them foment a civil war, which would result in the fall of the standing Mexican government. Naturally, the Soviets would step in and prop up the fledgling leftists.

In February 1971, a small group of the students hid out in an abandoned shed. They used the chalkboard to draw out their initial plans to sabotage the power grid, which was their part of the revolution. A tired, elderly village constable often stopped at the shack to rest during his long walk home. The boys were disrespectful to him, so he arrested them and turned them over to the police - with their chalkboard.

Over the next couple weeks, Mexican intelligence and their national police unraveled the plot and arrested the leader (Gomez). Five senior Soviet diplomats were PNG'd and dozens of the young militants were arrested. Some of this stuff leaked out around the edges at the time; that might have been the source of the above post about a mythical Soviet invasion of the US from Mexico. But what really happened was the Mexican government uncovered a KGB plot that endangered the Mexican government by fomenting a leftist revolution.

Google "Movimiento de Accion Revolucionaria" (MAR). You might wish to use a browser with a translation feature because most of what is written about MAR is in Spanish.

Or, better yet, read Chapter 11 of John Barron's book, KGB: The Secret Works of Soviet Secret Agents (New York: Bantam, 1974). You can still find Barron's book in most well-stocked public libraries. That is the best unclassified recounting of the incident I am aware of.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Honduras and Guatemala both have higher per capita GDPs than Nicaragua. Also, both countries have more people than Nicaragua - and thus more ability to spend on defense than Managua. Anyway, I'm not sure how having 50 T-72s for the Nicaraguan Army to drive around can 'foment instability' elsewhere...
My data were from the mid-1980s, when I used to brief government officials who were en route to that region. I am not up on it currently. However, comparing their GDPs to Nicaragua is, at best, to damn them with faint praise. Managua was in the toilet.

In many countries, having more people does not equate to having a greater ability to spend on defense. Particularly in poorer countries, having more people equates to having a larger burden of supporting the populace. I suspect that is the case in both Hondo and Guat.

Arming a neighbor with (relatively) bigger guns and tanks and bullets creates very nervous neighbors - what diplomats refer to as 'regional instability.' Doing it from the outside is called 'fomenting.' Even if the bigger guns are tired old T-72 tanks. In that neighborhood, they would be considered pretty significant improvements.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:55 PM
 
4,763 posts, read 1,876,548 times
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Quote:
The deal between Moscow and Managua, which will also involve the sale of 50 Russian T-72 tanks, comes as President Putinís regime ramps up the pressure on Nato in eastern Europe
I don't see Russia pressuring NATO in eastern Europe. It seems the other way round to me.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:14 PM
 
229 posts, read 154,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post


The closest Nicaragua comes to the United States is Florida - which is 700 miles away. And between Nicaragua and Florida is Cuba, so a 'spy base' (whatever that even means) gives the Russians precisely nothing that it doesn't already have vis-a-vis the United States - to say nothing of the fact that Russian electronics eavesdropping ships and aircraft are free to approach within 12 miles of the American coast, and do, just like Soviet ships and aircraft did back in the day (and just like American ships and aircraft do wherever it is deemed useful to do so).

Are we supposed to be afraid that those 50 second-generation tanks will fight their way north, over a thousand miles through tropical rainforest and over mountain ranges, across three countries - Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico - and invade Texas? Maybe people who saw 1984's Red Dawn and thought it was totally realistic.
Read Harold Coyle's 3rd book,Trial by Fire. About a war with Mexico started by "cartel" groups. Nicaraguan Tanks actually made it to Mexico and fought alongside Mexican troops.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Kansas/China
4,541 posts, read 2,310,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
In the 1960s and early 1970s, the KGB ran a huge station out of the Soviet embassy in Mexico City. They recruited a large group of leftist Mexican students, sent many of them to school in Moscow (Patrice Lumumba U) and then covertly returned them to Mexico. Two groups were sent to North Korea for military training. The plot was to have them foment a civil war, which would result in the fall of the standing Mexican government. Naturally, the Soviets would step in and prop up the fledgling leftists.

In February 1971, a small group of the students hid out in an abandoned shed. They used the chalkboard to draw out their initial plans to sabotage the power grid, which was their part of the revolution. A tired, elderly village constable often stopped at the shack to rest during his long walk home. The boys were disrespectful to him, so he arrested them and turned them over to the police - with their chalkboard.

Over the next couple weeks, Mexican intelligence and their national police unraveled the plot and arrested the leader (Gomez). Five senior Soviet diplomats were PNG'd and dozens of the young militants were arrested. Some of this stuff leaked out around the edges at the time; that might have been the source of the above post about a mythical Soviet invasion of the US from Mexico. But what really happened was the Mexican government uncovered a KGB plot that endangered the Mexican government by fomenting a leftist revolution.

Google "Movimiento de Accion Revolucionaria" (MAR). You might wish to use a browser with a translation feature because most of what is written about MAR is in Spanish.

Or, better yet, read Chapter 11 of John Barron's book, KGB: The Secret Works of Soviet Secret Agents (New York: Bantam, 1974). You can still find Barron's book in most well-stocked public libraries. That is the best unclassified recounting of the incident I am aware of.
I've never heard that before, very interesting. Didn't the Nazi's do something similar in WWII? They tried to get Mexico to turn on the US as well. Luckily our neighbors to our south have never been hostile, at least in the last 100 years.

Considering Mexico has a large nominal GDP and a greater per capita GDP then Russia, I'm not worried about Russia or any other country influencing Mexico against the US. 80% of Mexican exports go to the US and almost half of their imports come from the US. We are too reliant on each other for our economies to ever have much hostility.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Kansas/China
4,541 posts, read 2,310,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr6035 View Post
Read Harold Coyle's 3rd book,Trial by Fire. About a war with Mexico started by "cartel" groups. Nicaraguan Tanks actually made it to Mexico and fought alongside Mexican troops.
But, that's a fictional book... and just reading the plot and some reviews make me think twice about it...
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