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Old 07-01-2016, 08:00 PM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,397,132 times
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[quote=phetaroi;44616623]
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
But the idiot Prosecutor had a meeting with the cops AND school and the school board are ELECTED OFFICIALS.

They didn't even push back. Just started calling and calling and calling.

They were ALL IN. They even reported two kids for fooling around roughousing! And instead of saying anything to the kids, they sent the cops to the HOUSE with no warning at all!



.../quote]

Well, when I was ordered to do something by the School Board -- my bosses who paid my salary -- I did it in order to fulfill the contract I signed.
You mean as a teacher?

You had discretion in these cases. Two kids who are friends roughhousing?

I'd probably start with "Hey, knock it off" instead of sending cops to their house later with no warning whatsoever.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:11 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,045,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Often overlooked is that the parents of the 3rd grader were reported to the New Jersey Division of Child Protection and Permanency, the analog to New York's Child Protective Services. Typically a CPS visit starts in a very traumatic manner. A white van shows up at a late hour, usually after dinner time, for an "emergency"visit. If the two social workers who arrive, in their sole discretion, think there's an emergency they can take the kids with them.

My wife and I had three reports filed against us. We were flagged because our younger son is on the autistic spectrum, albeit high functioning. That was the excuse. The real problem was that our normal older son wore a tee shirt to school on the first day of class bearing the name of the principal's former employer. We had the shirt since we had family from that town. My older son had a sense of humor, albeit mischievous. The principal did not, and took an instant dislike to my older son and by extension the whole family. At that point it was "off to the races."

But back to these visits from CPS or NJ's DCPP. The initial visit is scary. Even if the children are not taken, restrictions are placed on the family. Families are told that while the investigation is open the children should be home when not in school so that an investigator can come at will. Life is not normal during the pendency of an such an investigation. Even if the report is marked "unfounded," as all three of ours are, they remain open in the file for about six years. Given that I am a practicing lawyer I may have to disclose those to my professional association if asked.

Thus, when the Collingswood Mayor says it's "(f)ixed, finished, done" I sure hope that means that the DCPP report is not only marked "unfounded" but is erased entirely. Somehow, I doubt the Mayor knows or cares about this issue.

This kind of nonsense is one of the reasons why Brexit happened. Worse, it is why we're saddled with the likes of Donald Trump. The elected officials often do their best to "get along by going along." They rarely have the moral fiber to stand up and say "this is wrong." The way Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird did, or Harry S. Truman, in real life, did when he integrated the Army and armed forces housing. The same lack of thought goes into many politically correct but nonsensical farces such as "airport security," restrictions on cell phone use and unreasonably low speed limits. Little or no thought is given as to whether the loss of liberty is balanced by any discernible gains.
Damn it, quit making me agree with you.

El Nox
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:12 PM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,397,132 times
Reputation: 17163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post

This kind of nonsense is one of the reasons why Brexit happened. Worse, it is why we're saddled with the likes of Donald Trump. The elected officials often do their best to "get along by going along." They rarely have the moral fiber to stand up and say "this is wrong." The way Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird did, or Harry S. Truman, in real life, did when he integrated the Army and armed forces housing. The same lack of thought goes into many politically correct but nonsensical farces such as "airport security," restrictions on cell phone use and unreasonably low speed limits. Little or no thought is given as to whether the loss of liberty is balanced by any discernible gains.
That's a disgrace about how they treated your family.

And funny you mention that but in the UK they arrested a politician for quoting Churchill in public a couple years ago. And yeah, there's a Brexit analogy because a sovereign country was suddenly supposed to take social and cultural directions from unelected bureaucrats in the EU. WHICH was never the intent of the Common Market. But when they added "free movement of people" in with free movement of goods, the whole ballgame changed.

I've been reading stories for YEARS where they ARREST an 8 year old child because someone's feelings got "hurt".

It's outrageous. And coming here soon unless we DEMAND our Constitutional freedoms.

Problem IS, the schools are run by people and teaching materials that lie about those freedoms and their meanings.

Our Constitution was written to tell the government what to do, not the other way around. But as the ONLY country in the world with that, the Globalists are working very hard to bury it.

Reagan speech: ‘We the people.’” “We the people tell the government what to do. It doesn’t tell us."

I for one am thrilled to have a Trump. He's the only one with the street fighter smarts to go up against what's going on right now. I don't see how he can possibly win with the entire INTERNATIONAL globalist corporate oligarchy cabal against him. But we'll see. Perhaps the people will get a spine. If they can stop watching Kardashians for a moment. But I doubt that many even know that Congress is pushing to pass the TPP with free movement of PEOPLE meaning companies can move here WITH their international employees and no requirement to hire Americans. Or that this week, US, MX and CA decided UNILATERALLY that they'd being the North American UNION. Mini EU.

Look at this mess with the ATTORNEY GENERAL! Just like this NJ case. They're making fools of us to our faces and couldn't care less!

Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-01-2016 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
13,819 posts, read 24,568,533 times
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The transcript of what the kid said was just released. It appears that he was just doing a funny routine of a rap song he hears, at home, for the other elementary school kids, most of whom were getting a kick out of it. Anyway, here's what the kid said:

I said that I’mma ride for my mothereffin brownies
Most likely I’mma die with my finger on the trigger
I’ve been grindin outside all day with my brownies
And I ain’t goin' in unless I’m with my brownies
My brownie, my brownie
My brownie, my brownie (My muthaeffing brownies!)
My brownie, my brownie (my brownie, my brownie)
My brownie, my brownie
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,957 posts, read 8,893,958 times
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[quote=runswithscissors;44616740]
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post

You mean as a teacher?

You had discretion in these cases. Two kids who are friends roughhousing?

I'd probably start with "Hey, knock it off" instead of sending cops to their house later with no warning whatsoever.
Unless it was illegal or immoral, if the School Board ordered me to do something, as a principal, I did it. I might state my objections strongly. But in the end, we all have bosses. Except, of course, for those folks who are unemployed.

Frankly, it sounds to me as if you haven't read the background in this story. But, whatever. I've stated my position. If you don't like it or agree with it, I just don't care.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:41 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,439 posts, read 5,227,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
That's a disgrace about how they treated your family.
Ironically overall we're very well thought of in the community. That one principal didn't like my then 11 and 12 year old older son's sense of humor. He's a mischievous, smart red-head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
And funny you mention that but in the UK they arrested a politician for quoting Churchill in public a couple years ago. And yeah, there's a Brexit analogy because a sovereign country was suddenly supposed to take social and cultural directions from unelected bureaucrats in the EU. WHICH was never the intent of the Common Market. But when they added "free movement of people" in with free movement of goods, the whole ballgame changed.
Now the ballgame has changed again and the unelected one-world types are inconsolable. They consider people who believe in ancient, G-d given freedoms to be little more than baboons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
I've been reading stories for YEARS where they ARREST an 8 year old child because someone's feelings got "hurt".
I agree. One shouldn't arrest people for subjective things such as "hurt feelings."

Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
I for one am thrilled to have a Trump. He's the only one with the street fighter smarts to go up against what's going on right now. I don't see how he can possibly win with the entire INTERNATIONAL globalist corporate oligarchy cabal against him. But we'll see. Perhaps the people will get a spine. If they can stop watching Kardashians for a moment. But I doubt that many even know that Congress is pushing to pass the TPP with free movement of PEOPLE meaning companies can move here WITH their international employees and no requirement to hire Americans. Or that this week, US, MX and CA decided UNILATERALLY that they'd being the North American UNION. Mini EU.
I agree with you ideologically. I'm not sure if Trump is the right trumpet (pun intended) for liberties. I suspect he's a demagogue saying not what he believes but what he knows will sell. If I really thought he planned to carry through his pledges (some of them that is) it would be another story. But making fun of a reporter with the same disability my nephew has - arthrogryposis - is a bridge too far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
Look at this mess with the ATTORNEY GENERAL! Just like this NJ case. They're making fools of us to our faces and couldn't care less!
Spine is needed. I'm repping this post if I can.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:43 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,439 posts, read 5,227,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox View Post
Damn it, quit making me agree with you.

El Nox
I could use more people who agree even if they're reluctant. Thus I repped this post. Aksim I am an attorney. If I can't advocate well I'm a failure as an attorney.

Last edited by jbgusa; 07-01-2016 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:45 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,439 posts, read 5,227,534 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
But the idiot Prosecutor had a meeting with the cops AND school and the school board are ELECTED OFFICIALS.

They didn't even push back. Just started calling and calling and calling.

They were ALL IN. They even reported two kids for fooling around roughousing! And instead of saying anything to the kids, they sent the cops to the HOUSE with no warning at all!



...
Well, when I was ordered to do something by the School Board -- my bosses who paid my salary -- I did it in order to fulfill the contract I signed.
I agree but an elected official is chosen to represent the people, not the prosecutors. They work for him, not the other way around.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,957 posts, read 8,893,958 times
Reputation: 18330
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I agree but an elected official is chosen to represent the people, not the prosecutors. They work for him, not the other way around.
Principals aren't elected officials.

Seems like you need to put the responsibility on the School Board, who clearly didn't know how to handle a hot potato.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:58 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,439 posts, read 5,227,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Principals aren't elected officials.

Seems like you need to put the responsibility on the School Board, who clearly didn't know how to handle a hot potato.
I totally agree that a principal's role is subordinate to the Board of Education. Thus unless professional responsibility is transgressed a principal must obey the board. I put the Mayor of Collingswood in a totally different posture. He should have prevented the police's overstepping and if he couldn't, he should have gone public. At the very least he should have warned the public, after the May 25 meeting that there had been a major policy change and that little children were at risk for arrest, and their parents at risk for protective service intervention, if everyone was not on their very best behavior at all times. At the very least, the uproar would have reached Trenton, with possibly pragmatic results.
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