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As an older woman you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. What is YOUR defense for it? Gimme my vaccine at 40, 50, 60? You yourself have probably been infected and cleared. Do as I say, not as I do?
ONE person dying of anything is too much for the medical profession, let alone your 10%.
I am thankfully through with Paps for the rest of my life. Last one was negative as was the HPV test. What's with the personal stuff, eh? My kids have been vaccinated, as has my grand-niece. If I could have gotten the vaccine as a young woman, or even as a pre-teen, I would have.
Needless deaths are just so, needless. Do you relish the idea of people dying in the prime of life? The peak age to get cervical cancer is 47. Almost half are under 35. My kids had a gymnastics coach that died of cancer of the vulva at 36, which can also be caused by HPV and NOT picked up by pap. Interesting that this link refers to malnutrition, not just "poor diet" as a risk factor. Malnutrition is a risk factor for a lot of things. As far as oral contraceptives (not your rant, I know) "It can be postulated that most women who use oral contraceptives are more sexually active than women who do not, and this may represent a confounding factor rather than a true independent risk factor." Cervical Cancer | Cancer Network
Here is a great explanation of risk (again, I know, you don't care, but others might). "Having a risk factor, or even several, does not mean that a person will get the disease. Also, not having any risk factors doesn't mean that you won't get it, either."
Although several risk factors increase the odds of developing vulvar cancer, most women with these risks do not develop it. And some women who don’t have any apparent risk factors develop vulvar cancer. When a woman develops vulvar cancer, it is usually not possible to say with certainty that a particular risk factor was the cause." What are the risk factors for vulvar cancer?
The same applies to cervical cancer.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-05-2016 at 06:16 PM..
And while we're waiting for all those children to grow up to be adults who get vaccinations, they continue to get diseases as children and are harmed or die from them. And any adult who is not yet vaccinated stands to get a serious illness if he gets it from a child....oh, why am I even bothering? This has been repeated so often that it's a waste of finger movement to keep typing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Oh sorry, it was another poster who thinks this HPV vaccine is also good for kids cuz of penile cancer... Where did you get that figure? 35% chance of dying from cervical cancer in the US with regular paps? I think not. Show me the study.
Then I apologize for being snippy.
Er, last time I checked, part of "kids" were boys, and when boys have sex with girls who have the HPV virus, guess what the boys get? And guess what the boys have?
I can't exactly remember all the sites I looked up, but this is as close as anything. This site says:
In 2016, an estimated 12,990 new cases of invasive cervical cancer will be diagnosed in U.S. women.3
In 2016, an estimated 4,120 U.S. women will die from cervical cancer.3
Percentage wise, you'd divide 4120 by 12,990 to get the percentage of women who will die from cervical cancer out of the total number of women who get cervical cancer. That figure, 4120/12,990 = .317 which is 31.7%.
That's practically 1 in 3 women who get cervical cancer who will die from it, pap smears or not.
In 2013 (the most recent year numbers are available)—
11,955 women in the United States were diagnosed with cervical cancer.*2
4,217 women in the United States died from cervical cancer.*2
This wasn't a study. These are actual statistics taken from 2013. Doing the math, 4217/11,955 = .352 means that in 2013, 35.2% of women who were diagnosed with cervical cancer died from it.
Whether you get cancer or not depends on having persistent HPV infection with a high risk strain of HPV. If you do not get infected at all, smoking and OC use will not cause you to have cervical cancer. The infection with HPV is necessary for cancer to develop.
Pap smears do nothing to help women who get HPV associated cancers at sites other than the cervix or for men with HPV associated cancers.
The vaccine prevents 90% of high risk HPV infections.
The problem with your statement is that you assume way too much. First that HPV is prevented. You can never know if you would get HPV. No one can predict the future. As with other vaccines, you cannot say, scientifically, that something prevents a disease because there are too many factors involved. That is part of what MissTerri is trying to convey.
If MOST (99% of sexually active people) contract HPV yet 90% resolve in 2 years then how many actually are at risk and protected (if in fact the vaccine protects which cannot be proven)?
If HPV is found in most cancers but also most cancers involve people who drive cars... how is that proof that HPV CAUSES cancer? Maybe there are several factors involved.
Also, HPV vaccine injury is ignored. Any honest person would look at that and say "why?" If there is a risk, we can't just ignore it.
And again... If 13 strains are found in cancers... why not the other couple hundred? and why only 9 in the NEW and IMPROVED vaccine? How does that help?
Spoiler
If cervical cancer and hpv persist they can always say it is the other strains causing it
90% of those adults clear the virus without any problems so in reality, this vaccine exists for the 10% who don't. Out of those 10%, paps will detect changes to the cervical cells and can be treated to prevent the development of cervical cancer for the majority. If people feel more comfortable getting the vaccine, they can but the risk is low and if people choose to just stick with paps and reduce their risk in other ways I see nothing wrong with that.
Yes and remember that HPV (the high risk types) usually show no symptoms so paps are the only way to detect that infection.
If your body cannot clear it like 90% of others then there is obviously a co-factor.
75% of polio patients don't even know they've had the disease. Another 15% or so have flu like symptoms and then get better. Another few percent have transient weakness or paralysis and then recover. Only about 0.5% to 2% get permanent paralysis. The attack rate is nowhere near 100%. It only exists in two countries in the world anymore, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Yet polio is one of the most feared diseases in the US. Many anti-vaxers want their kids to have polio vaccine, even as they refuse everything else. The risk is low, low, low. Now I would never suggest anyone skip any vaccine, just being a devil's advocate here.
Do you get the analogy? Actually, I'm sure you don't, but maybe some of the lurkers will. 10% of everyone is a HUGE number.
You shot from 15% have flu like symptoms then get better to 0.5% to 2% have paralysis then miraculously you declare that 10% of everyone is.. what? None of your figures said 10% so are you being disingenuous? Are you trying to skew the numbers as most proponents of vaccines do?
The reality is that 0.5% to 2% have paralysis (not all permanent) and remember those iron lungs? We have respirators now doing the same thing to children with paralysis (of course not from polio duh).
How can anyone believe you when you skew the numbers like that? Then you don't even tell about the contributing factors... or the name change with similar symptoms. Wow.....
Polio is ALWAYS brought up by those pushing vaccines. By a certain poster's own admission, even polio can have no symptoms, and people can go on living their lives without devastating consequences. How many elderly people still alive and kicking might have had polio and never knew it? Raising my hand.
People fear what that they have not seen themselves up close and personal. This is how medicine and the Pharms feed on promoting fear to younger generations. "Ask your GRANDPARENTS how horrible measles, mumps, or chicken pox was BEFORE our vaccines. lol Well, you won't get this Granny to say that. Actually, you can even ask many a 30 something to tell you how "life threatening" Chicken Pox was. Oh, but you are now going to get Shingles!!!! That vaccination is under 30% for the elderly, so apparently they are not worried about it.
Excuse my getting OT, but the FLU is the best current example of this. Everyone knows and has experienced the FLU, which is why they and the media cannot get their 90% vaccinated "Herd Immunity". The General Public does not FEAR it, so they do not get vaccinated for it like the "unknown to them" diseases.
When fear for yourself does not work, lay on a guilt trip. If YOU aren't afraid, do it for others you MIGHT KILL without your vaccination. Again, Flu vax perfect example. Even the most "vulnerable" are not getting their OWN Flu shots, but YOU can protect them from themselves?
It is a big scam that goes round and round and round. HPV is no different.
Not to mention that most people have the symptoms and declare they have the flu but aren't actually tested for it. In the ER we saw many many people in that had a cold and thought they had the flu but tested negative.
Without symptoms really there cannot be disease. If 90% of women clear the infection then HPV cannot be the cause of all cancers.... 5% will have warts and clear it... another 5% MAY have a long lasting infection (with other contributing factors). It's absurd to even develop a vaccine for HPV (not to mention other childhood diseases!).
I am thankfully through with Paps for the rest of my life. Last one was negative as was the HPV test. What's with the personal stuff, eh? My kids have been vaccinated, as has my grand-niece. If I could have gotten the vaccine as a young woman, or even as a pre-teen, I would have.
Needless deaths are just so, needless. Do you relish the idea of people dying in the prime of life? The peak age to get cervical cancer is 47. Almost half are under 35. My kids had a gymnastics coach that died of cancer of the vulva at 36, which can also be caused by HPV and NOT picked up by pap. Interesting that this link refers to malnutrition, not just "poor diet" as a risk factor. Malnutrition is a risk factor for a lot of things. As far as oral contraceptives (not your rant, I know) "It can be postulated that most women who use oral contraceptives are more sexually active than women who do not, and this may represent a confounding factor rather than a true independent risk factor." Cervical Cancer | Cancer Network
Here is a great explanation of risk (again, I know, you don't care, but others might). "Having a risk factor, or even several, does not mean that a person will get the disease. Also, not having any risk factors doesn't mean that you won't get it, either."
Although several risk factors increase the odds of developing vulvar cancer, most women with these risks do not develop it. And some women who don’t have any apparent risk factors develop vulvar cancer. When a woman develops vulvar cancer, it is usually not possible to say with certainty that a particular risk factor was the cause." What are the risk factors for vulvar cancer?
The same applies to cervical cancer.
Do the ignored deaths from vaccines count as needless deaths?
And while we're waiting for all those children to grow up to be adults who get vaccinations, they continue to get diseases as children and are harmed or die from them. And any adult who is not yet vaccinated stands to get a serious illness if he gets it from a child....oh, why am I even bothering? This has been repeated so often that it's a waste of finger movement to keep typing it.
Then I apologize for being snippy.
Er, last time I checked, part of "kids" were boys, and when boys have sex with girls who have the HPV virus, guess what the boys get? And guess what the boys have?
I can't exactly remember all the sites I looked up, but this is as close as anything. This site says:
In 2016, an estimated 12,990 new cases of invasive cervical cancer will be diagnosed in U.S. women.3
In 2016, an estimated 4,120 U.S. women will die from cervical cancer.3
Percentage wise, you'd divide 4120 by 12,990 to get the percentage of women who will die from cervical cancer out of the total number of women who get cervical cancer. That figure, 4120/12,990 = .317 which is 31.7%.
That's practically 1 in 3 women who get cervical cancer who will die from it, pap smears or not.
In 2013 (the most recent year numbers are available)—
11,955 women in the United States were diagnosed with cervical cancer.*2
4,217 women in the United States died from cervical cancer.*2
This wasn't a study. These are actual statistics taken from 2013. Doing the math, 4217/11,955 = .352 means that in 2013, 35.2% of women who were diagnosed with cervical cancer died from it.
Yet those diagnosed with cervical cancer are what portion of the population? Do you think that 1 in 60 kids having autism is bad? Do you think that 1 in 1 million kids dying from one vaccine or another is bad? Do you think that we need a vaccine for such a "trivial" amount of deaths is warranted? It is nearly the same "trivial" amount of deaths from vaccines! Not even to mention the other vaccines these poor teens have already been given. Not to mention the vaccine may not even last 5-7 years (give it to a 9 year old and they don't have sex... what? a second series?)... It's cost and risk don't outweigh it's benefit.
Of course not,they dont wanna risk losing $$$$$$$$$$$ -- ALL EVIDENCE WILL ALWAYS BE DESTROYED before it reaches the cattle who are being kept under control..
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