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Old 08-13-2016, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
I agree that this woman's costumes are unprofessional, but if she is not breaking the rules and is otherwise productive, what can her employer do, ethically speaking?

He can only fire her for making him look like the prig he is.
There are expectations of, and probably a dress code, requiring employees to look professional on the job.

She looked great in the pantsuit, and wore a scarf on her head in a style that didn't look like it fit with the outfit. She looked professional from the neck down, but not from the neck up.

Now she's made it her mission to show her manager, and everyone in the company, that she's not going to be told what she can and cannot wear to to work, so she's making a mockery of the policy and thumbing her nose at her (the manager is female) by wearing costumes to work and probably creating a distraction about what she's wearing. I can't tell how old she is, but file this under E for entitled snowflake - spoiled brat for those who don't know what an entitled snowflake is.

To those saying she's a prig and shouldn't have commented on her scarf, means you're apparently unaware that every company has their own unique culture. For all we know, she was told to have a talk with her about the scarf, and she did her job in doing so.

This is not a precedent you want to set either in a department or a company. If she's smart, she'll terminate her.

And that may well be her goal.
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:42 AM
 
Location: PA
2,113 posts, read 2,406,431 times
Reputation: 5471
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I know or managers that think that it is in the job description or at least in the employee handbook to wear business casual. It would be one thing if she had on pajamas on a non-pajama day but she didn't. She looked respectable and did so in all the pictures besides the Beth Phoenix style Amazon princess tiara picture. That unless it was dress-up day was a little too much even for a desk-job.



What, dressing in work-friendly cosplay (Amazon princess attire excluded) isn't "mature"? I mean the outfits she wore were for the most part fine in a typical office setting for a woman (business dress options for females vs. male is out of the scope of this argument.) She obviously looked at the handbook and saw no rules against something and is doing it to either tick the manager off to fire her without cause OR to have it clarified in the employee handbook.



How do you know. Maybe she is stuck in her cubicle answering calls or preparing reports rather than face-to-face contact with clients. Should she work stay-at-home, she could work naked for all we know and care.



She ruined it if it was merely to tick off the boss.
You just brought up something that I have never quite understood about working in an office in a non-customer facing position. We have to dress business casual, but then we have this Employee Committee that comes out with a calendar every month with things like "Pajama Day" or "Flip Flop Friday" or what have you, to boost employee morale. And I have seriously gotten crap from people because I wasn't about to wear pajamas or a costume to work. Really? And don't get me started on the potlucks. I understand the purpose of having a dress code because there has to be SOME element of professionalism, but then the company negates it by having their employees come into work in their South Park pajamas or dressed like Captain Crunch. SMH. It's just a way for the company to provide "incentives" for their employees without actually spending more money. I'd rather have a $10 gift card anyday.
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Old 08-13-2016, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgirl926 View Post
You just brought up something that I have never quite understood about working in an office in a non-customer facing position. We have to dress business casual, but then we have this Employee Committee that comes out with a calendar every month with things like "Pajama Day" or "Flip Flop Friday" or what have you, to boost employee morale. And I have seriously gotten crap from people because I wasn't about to wear pajamas or a costume to work. Really? And don't get me started on the potlucks. I understand the purpose of having a dress code because there has to be SOME element of professionalism, but then the company negates it by having their employees come into work in their South Park pajamas or dressed like Captain Crunch. SMH. It's just a way for the company to provide "incentives" for their employees without actually spending more money. I'd rather have a $10 gift card anyday.
Most of those days are on Friday when clients are less likely to be in the building, and people aren't working as feverishly as they do M-Th.

Having said that, I think any type of motivator like this is geared toward a handful of people who really get into it. Companies cannot make everyone happy except when it comes to giving out gift cards or cash, so that's always what I suggest.

Outings, dress up days, "everyone contribute some kind of food" days are not considered a benefit and a lot of people participate begrudgingly. I think companies should put more money in the pockets of their employees and stop with the play dates, but I'm always the lone voice stating as much when there are meetings about this.
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Old 08-13-2016, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,449,641 times
Reputation: 35863
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgirl926 View Post
You just brought up something that I have never quite understood about working in an office in a non-customer facing position. We have to dress business casual, but then we have this Employee Committee that comes out with a calendar every month with things like "Pajama Day" or "Flip Flop Friday" or what have you, to boost employee morale. And I have seriously gotten crap from people because I wasn't about to wear pajamas or a costume to work. Really? And don't get me started on the potlucks. I understand the purpose of having a dress code because there has to be SOME element of professionalism, but then the company negates it by having their employees come into work in their South Park pajamas or dressed like Captain Crunch. SMH. It's just a way for the company to provide "incentives" for their employees without actually spending more money. I'd rather have a $10 gift card anyday.
I'm with you on this. It kind of makes me think the powers that be are treating the employees like children. The last place I worked used jeans as an incentive to get people to work OT or to contribute to the charity drives they pushed on us.

Big deal. I can wear jeans on my own time. I'll contribute if I want and work OT if necessary. Casual Friday is fine. Dressing up in costume on Halloween is fun. But using clothing as a bribe is stupid. I too would rather have the gift card if there is a reward in the offing.

Oh and don't get me started on being asked to contribute to baby showers or wedding gifts for someone over in the next department I don't even know or about whom I couldn't care less.
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Old 08-13-2016, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I'm with you on this. It kind of makes me think the powers that be are treating the employees like children. The last place I worked used jeans as an incentive to get people to work OT or to contribute to the charity drives they pushed on us.

Big deal. I can wear jeans on my own time. I'll contribute if I want and work OT if necessary. Casual Friday is fine. Dressing up in costume on Halloween is fun. But using clothing as a bribe is stupid. I too would rather have the gift card if there is a reward in the offing.

Oh and don't get me started on being asked to contribute to baby showers or wedding gifts for someone over in the next department I don't even know or about whom I couldn't care less.
In the companies I've worked in it's someone in HR who makes the suggestion, saying it will help with engagement and morale. The C-levels and VP's are pulled into a discussion to get our feedback, and I'm not kidding when I say I've been the only one in the group to say people want money or a gift card, and that while some may appreciate the things they're suggesting, others will not.

But the cheerleaders always convince the others that it will be FUN and everyone will LOVE it! (insert pom poms here)

If I had my way, I'd take the money they want to spend on events and just give it to the people in my department. They'd appreciate that far more.

And potluck anything frustrates me. Many people at the upper level will put whatever they're buying on their monthly expense report, while people making far less are expected to dig in their pocket and pay for their contribution themselves. I've never added such purchases to my expense report because I think that's unfair to the people who don't have that luxury.

But again, I'm always the odd man out in these discussions.
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Old 08-13-2016, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,449,641 times
Reputation: 35863
I don't want to get too OT but this all does sort of tie in with this young woman who wanted to "show" her boss she could dress as she pleases.

What she's doing is not only disrupting the workflow but causing bad feelings amongst her co-workers. There will be those who will side with her and those against. There will be resentment against the powers-that-be. As unfair and militant as that may sound to some, it has to be remembered that a place of business is not a place to express your personal self unless it's that kind of business which this doesn't appear to be. She was apparently not in a creative line of work where this would be encouraged.

One thing I have always disliked is when the employees get these silly "perks" like potlucks, parties, dress funny days while the execs stand by and watch. It just causes more of a divisiveness between the ranks which causes the higher ups to look further down on the minions. That's especially true when it comes to the way men look at the lower ranks of women in the office. Like one place where I worked where the women were responsible for cleaning up the break room which involved taking home the dishtowels to launder which cost money for those of us who didn't have washing machines and had to use coin operated ones. Also only the women had to take turns washing the dishes, making coffee and do the general tidying up. When we had birthday parties with cake or food, women were expected to bring food, dishes, etc and serve the men. Regardless of our jobs, all things being equal, these chores fell to the females in the office. Those were things I rebelled over not some silly head scarf because I felt it diminished women's positions in our office. But I brought it up in a nice way and actually got the boss (male) to make some compromises.

What this young woman was doing when she came to work dressed in her different costumes each day was saying "Look at me, I'm a clown," rather than "Look at me, I'm a force to be taken seriously." She wasn't trying to make any positive changes other than drawing attention to herself.

I don't know if she had planned to make a career for herself in the business world but if she keeps that up she certainly won't.
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Old 08-13-2016, 04:48 PM
 
Location: PA
2,113 posts, read 2,406,431 times
Reputation: 5471
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
In the companies I've worked in it's someone in HR who makes the suggestion, saying it will help with engagement and morale. The C-levels and VP's are pulled into a discussion to get our feedback, and I'm not kidding when I say I've been the only one in the group to say people want money or a gift card, and that while some may appreciate the things they're suggesting, others will not.

But the cheerleaders always convince the others that it will be FUN and everyone will LOVE it! (insert pom poms here)

If I had my way, I'd take the money they want to spend on events and just give it to the people in my department. They'd appreciate that far more.

And potluck anything frustrates me. Many people at the upper level will put whatever they're buying on their monthly expense report, while people making far less are expected to dig in their pocket and pay for their contribution themselves. I've never added such purchases to my expense report because I think that's unfair to the people who don't have that luxury.

But again, I'm always the odd man out in these discussions.
If I were there, I'd speak up!

I understand the need to look professional and I budget accordingly. I'm not poor by any means, but I do need to budget. I already know that I need the shirts and the dress pants. This pajama day and costume garbage is just not in my budget. I don't spend extra money on an outfit just to go to bed at night, and I am not going to do it to join in a Dress Up Day. Nor am I going to spend money on a Halloween costume or "wear all red today". And the potlucks...every time someone farts, someone in our department wants to throw a potluck. There are maybe three people who want to bring in their deviled eggs and mac n' cheese or whatever, and everyone else brings in chips. And again, I budget only so much for food, and this cuts into my budget. I think that these cheerleaders really fail to see that we are paying for our own incentives.

I've seen way worse at different workplaces to be bothered by the girl's headscarf. But, although the pictures were funny, she could have handled it way differently.
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Old 08-14-2016, 03:54 AM
 
13,586 posts, read 13,120,116 times
Reputation: 17786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
In the companies I've worked in it's someone in HR who makes the suggestion, saying it will help with engagement and morale. The C-levels and VP's are pulled into a discussion to get our feedback, and I'm not kidding when I say I've been the only one in the group to say people want money or a gift card, and that while some may appreciate the things they're suggesting, others will not.

But the cheerleaders always convince the others that it will be FUN and everyone will LOVE it! (insert pom poms here)

If I had my way, I'd take the money they want to spend on events and just give it to the people in my department. They'd appreciate that far more.

And potluck anything frustrates me. Many people at the upper level will put whatever they're buying on their monthly expense report, while people making far less are expected to dig in their pocket and pay for their contribution themselves. I've never added such purchases to my expense report because I think that's unfair to the people who don't have that luxury.

But again, I'm always the odd man out in these discussions.
When I ran my own department, the first thing I banned was gift exchanges, of any kind, especially Secret Santa. People that make very little money don't need to be solicited for ten bucks here and there to contribute to some worthless gift exchange at work. Especially when they are trying to buy crap for their own families.

Some people go without lunch because they are too embarrassed not to contribute to Suzy's stale overpriced birthday cake. Not on my watch.

Call me the party pooper.
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Old 08-14-2016, 04:12 AM
 
9,418 posts, read 13,497,989 times
Reputation: 10305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I don't want to get too OT but this all does sort of tie in with this young woman who wanted to "show" her boss she could dress as she pleases.

What she's doing is not only disrupting the workflow but causing bad feelings amongst her co-workers. There will be those who will side with her and those against. There will be resentment against the powers-that-be. As unfair and militant as that may sound to some, it has to be remembered that a place of business is not a place to express your personal self unless it's that kind of business which this doesn't appear to be. She was apparently not in a creative line of work where this would be encouraged.

One thing I have always disliked is when the employees get these silly "perks" like potlucks, parties, dress funny days while the execs stand by and watch. It just causes more of a divisiveness between the ranks which causes the higher ups to look further down on the minions. That's especially true when it comes to the way men look at the lower ranks of women in the office. Like one place where I worked where the women were responsible for cleaning up the break room which involved taking home the dishtowels to launder which cost money for those of us who didn't have washing machines and had to use coin operated ones. Also only the women had to take turns washing the dishes, making coffee and do the general tidying up. When we had birthday parties with cake or food, women were expected to bring food, dishes, etc and serve the men. Regardless of our jobs, all things being equal, these chores fell to the females in the office. Those were things I rebelled over not some silly head scarf because I felt it diminished women's positions in our office. But I brought it up in a nice way and actually got the boss (male) to make some compromises.

What this young woman was doing when she came to work dressed in her different costumes each day was saying "Look at me, I'm a clown," rather than "Look at me, I'm a force to be taken seriously." She wasn't trying to make any positive changes other than drawing attention to herself.

I don't know if she had planned to make a career for herself in the business world but if she keeps that up she certainly won't.
Excellent post. The menial jobs you mention falling on women in the office, that is worth making note of. And maybe her headscarf was, as well. It was her response. She turned it into a game. They don't like it? Then I'll show them by acting out. It's a childish reaction and won't get anyone far in this world.
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,449,641 times
Reputation: 35863
“Dress for the job you want, not the job you have” quote from “Picture Perfect.”

I guess this young woman didn't want a better job.
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