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Old 03-18-2017, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,068 posts, read 6,446,536 times
Reputation: 7730

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Hmmmm, I said ouch earlier because I was offended and no one said oops.

Just trying to point out the obvious that people can be offended by just about anything.

What if my religion tells me that I should be offended by a woman in public not having her face covered?
Should you apologize to me? What if I were "triggered" by it.

Gets to be a really slippery slope when you start picking whose values and opinions merit protection and whom should be apologizing.
I'll "oops" for you mathguy.....and you know I really, really, really mean that.

But yes, a magic question......what is offensive and who's in charge of being the master offensive definer? An ugly slippery slope for sure.

 
Old 03-19-2017, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
11,981 posts, read 8,320,397 times
Reputation: 44613
As I remember, at a college level questions like "What is offensive?" are examined by debate not by how we feel about them. I think that's a good public focus for college-aged kids. Facts.

In your private life you can "oops" and ouch" all you want. I hope someone tells them their mileage may vary. It only works if the hive mind is engaged. That's why I think it's such a good and gentle control technique for five-year-olds. Getting all those little folks cooperating is a good thing.

The "big kids?" Let's let them get their feelings hurt and still survive and learn from their experiences. Surprise! Your feelings and those of others don't have to run the show.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 09:19 AM
 
3,137 posts, read 2,696,411 times
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I don't say ouch or oops to someone. If they are rude, I will tell them point blank: "that was rude". I'm very direct. A college-aged person should be able to deal with being told he/she is rude.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 09:32 AM
 
3,137 posts, read 2,696,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post

An unprepared/naive class of "adults" who are sheltered from reality and can't deal with reality/the real world.
Wouldn't this include students who don't like being told they are offensive or rude?

I've been told before that something I said was inappropriate or rude. I dealt with it like an adult. I either apologized (if I felt it was warranted) or I listened to what the other person had to say. But I did not expect to have the right to silence the person who was offended. So I think college students who don't want to hear "ouch" are perhaps the ones who want to be coddled.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 09:52 AM
 
9,153 posts, read 9,452,899 times
Reputation: 14039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemomma View Post
LOL! I had to spend the day with my ex husband and our kids today. In preparation I reminded myself repeatedly that if he said something hurtful or derogatory (as he has been known to do) even in a teasing way, my response would be "Ouch!" In the past I've learned that if I try to come back at him he takes pleasure in baiting me further and entering into our old uncomfortable dialogues. But if I say "ouch" and maybe "that was unnecessarily hurtful" he can't come up with much of a response.

I'm happy to say we got through our day of familial obligation without one single snarky comment. He was well behaved.
I read the "ouch" suggestion in an advice column a while back, and this is the kind of situation I was thinking it would be useful in. One where someone is deliberately poking at you. If you ignore it, you send the message to your kids that you should let people run you down. And if you don't answer some pokers will ask why you didn't respond, what do you have to say, why aren't you talking to me, or something that makes the situation even more uncomfortable.

If you try to tell them why what they said/did was wrong, they deflect by starting a big long argument about exactly what they did wrong, why you're too critical of them, etc etc etc. Or they get defensive and don't hear a thing. If you're in a group this makes everyone uncomfortable. Whereas if you say ouch in a group it lets others know that these comments aren't a joke between you and the poker. Someone is more likely to speak up for you if the poker continues to the point of bullying.

The ouch pretty much shuts it down just like you said Stagemomma. The kids learn you don't have to just shut up and take negativity or insults, and they learn how to deal with passive aggressive insults.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,770,079 times
Reputation: 40161
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Snowflake Watch: Safe words for safe spaces | Fox News

"But what do America’s college students have? Where can they turn when they find themselves outside campus “safe spaces” and suffering a “microaggression”?"


"“If a student feels hurt or offended by another student’s comment, the hurt student can say ‘ouch.’ In acknowledgement, the student who made the hurtful comment says “oops.” If necessary, there can be further dialogue about this exchange.”"

I thought this was a joke at first but it appears not. Something you might see in kindergarten but college? I feel sorry for those in college these days. When I went to college we all somehow dealt with all the typical flow of life without being so coddled with all of this nonsense.
Sounds like you need a 'safe space' to shield you from the modern world, stevek64.

Society changes. The one into which you were born was a different one than that of your parents. Today, it is different still. Tomorrow it will be different yet again.

All these changes - centuries and millennia of them, all those that added up to create the society of the earlier days of your life for which you pine - were made in the face of people who complained about them, obstructed them as best they could, and who direly warned that they would be the demise of the world.

They were wrong. The world passed them by.

That's reality. Like it or not.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,125 posts, read 107,381,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
If someone insulted/offended me, I don't see how the reply of "oops" to my "ouch" would appease me in any way. It's like saying "My bad." That sounds like a very watered down, insincere, thoughtless apology/acceptance of one's guilt in doing something wrong. If college students are just programmed to automatically say "oops" will they really be processing what they did to cause the "ouch?" A two year old could be taught to say "oops" anytime the parent said "ouch" or "no"...but would they really be developing or EVER develop any insight? Or true remorse?

In my 63 years perhaps I should have said "ouch" more instead of trying not to react when someone offended me. The lack of acknowledgment of an offense perhaps didn't serve me or the offender well. But on the other hand, if someone does say ouch often (not sure how "often" would be defined---once an hour? day? week? month?), then perhaps that person is very easily offended and is in a reactive mode to see much as offensive. I could start speaking up more and saying ouch when offended, but if the reply is just an automatic "oops" I'm not sure it would be worth my while.

The two O words are cutesy, but maybe some transgressions should be "whoops." Or better yet, the old school route of apologizing....
There's nothing saying that the communications are limited to those two words. Rather, those are openers to further discussion. As in, "Oops, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you." The conversation could continue to discuss what the person said wrong. Most people naturally go beyond "Oops" when they perceive they've inadvertently offended someone.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,125 posts, read 107,381,087 times
Reputation: 115942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samiamnh View Post
OP was not referring to insensitive racial or sexist remarks.....goes without saying that those are unacceptable.
OP was referring to the whining students of today who are so coddled and protected from real life that they cannot accept any thought or word that does not agree with their view of the world.
If you read the linked article in the OP, you'll see that the bolded is exactly what it's talking about, though. If that's not what the OP wanted to discuss, he should have clarified the intent of his OP, or else chosen a different article.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,068 posts, read 6,446,536 times
Reputation: 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by tassity22 View Post
Wouldn't this include students who don't like being told they are offensive or rude?

I've been told before that something I said was inappropriate or rude. I dealt with it like an adult. I either apologized (if I felt it was warranted) or I listened to what the other person had to say. But I did not expect to have the right to silence the person who was offended. So I think college students who don't want to hear "ouch" are perhaps the ones who want to be coddled.
We are on the same page. Speak up for oneself like adults do on any matter and drop the oops/ouch kindergarten approach. I've stated this several times already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Sounds like you need a 'safe space' to shield you from the modern world, stevek64.

Society changes. The one into which you were born was a different one than that of your parents. Today, it is different still. Tomorrow it will be different yet again.

All these changes - centuries and millennia of them, all those that added up to create the society of the earlier days of your life for which you pine - were made in the face of people who complained about them, obstructed them as best they could, and who direly warned that they would be the demise of the world.

They were wrong. The world passed them by.

That's reality. Like it or not.
Your logic falls flat as you are arguing that in isolation change happens(yes, true) but that it should be embraced and accepted and not challenged 100% of the time. Just having this attitude of "oh well, it's change, let it happen" is naive in my view. And dangerous. Any change should be scrutinized and each one of us has a right to debate or criticize or praise it. Personally, there's lots of things that have changed since I went to college in the mid/late 80's that I wish I had(online classes), having broadband instead of a dial up to research on, etc. Some changes are eh, ok. Some changes are great. Some are going backwards and not necessarily beneficial to society as a whole/the people involved and this is what I see with reverting back to a kindergarten mentality with "ouch"/"oops". For college adults, this is not positive change.....this is reversion back to childhood in a most unhealthy manner. As is giving coloring books to college students, "safe" areas in colleges who couldn't handle an event back last November, whiny "adults" in several major colleges recently who couldn't encounter another view/side presented to them so they shouted down guest speakers, caused violence and the speaker at the college in VT actually got beat up. If this is change you accept/think "oh well, it is what it is", that's scary to me. This all doesn't prep college adults for the real world. Fail. Imagine supervising one of these adults/working with them in the workplace? Here's the change and what it's breeding in society:

Millennial narcissism: Helicopter parents are college students’ bigger problem.

"I suggested finding a job after graduation, even if it’s only temporary. She cried harder at this idea. “So, becoming an adult is just really scary for you?” I asked. “Yes,” she sniffled. Amy is 30 years old.

Her case is becoming the norm for twenty- to thirtysomethings I see in my office as a psychotherapist. I’ve had at least 100 college and grad students like Amy crying on my couch because breaching adulthood is too overwhelming."

And this is the result of this childlike approach on how they are treated at home and in college, keeping more than a few "adults" in a childhood mentality because they aren't being treated like adults with the "oops"/"ouch" 2 year old mentality. You think this is healthy change"? In any case I'd suggest you read the entire article and you can see the pieces in the puzzle how all these changes add up to create emotionally broken adults.

‘They can’t even’: Why millennials are the ‘anxious generation’ | New York Post

So there's the effect that results from the coddling cause and this kind of unrealistic/child like approach creates.


So yes, change happens regardless. But if you think change is all positive or all negative for that matter, you live in a far different world that I do as I see gray, not just black and white. And it's healthy/open minded to debate what change we see as unhealthy change as I do in this approach.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't know who the "we" are that you're referring to, but when I was in college, the students of color simply had to swallow some of the rude, deliberately hostile, and sometimes just plain clumsy and ignorant comments made toward them. They had to live with the stress and anger or depression resulting from other students telling them point blank that they didn't belong in the university, with assumptions that all students of color get in on some kind of qualifications-waiver and special treatment and that none of them could possibly as qualified or more qualified than many of the "mainstream" students, and other deliberate or unwitting jabs. This is not healthy, and having to live in such an environment places an undue burden on the students made to feel unwelcome and undeserving.

In some universities, students banded together to take constructive action, petitioning the administration to enact an ethnic studies requirement. (You'd be surprised how receptive university faculty were to this idea, especially those whose class enrollments would benefit from it.) One university actually hired a Black president as a result of minority student feedback.

Still, the problem persists. I see nothing wrong with the recipient of an offensive remark expressing their disgruntlement with a mere "ouch". It beats flaming the offender. This is isn't some radical departure from ordinary speech norms, anyway; plenty of people say "ouch" or some equivalent in response to a backhanded compliment, or other rudeness. It's not a big deal. And it's good to see that university administrators are making an effort to create a climate of acceptance for all students, so that all can attend institutions of higher education on an equal footing.

Nothing to see here, people--move along, move along.
I agree, Ruth.

Let's face it, a certain segment of our population is afraid of well-educated people...particularly well-educated minorities.
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