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Old 04-01-2017, 02:47 AM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,838,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffaemily
How did he know where the cub's mother was? Maybe the mother was getting its food, and the trail was next to it's den.
Yes and if that was the case im sure the mother would have taken action!!
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
15,218 posts, read 10,312,234 times
Reputation: 32198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
No, it's not like that at all.

A bear with its head stuck in a container is in a predicament precisely because of human activity - namely, leaving containers around. For a person to rectify that problem that another person or persons created is not in any way encroaching on the natural order of things. On the contrary, a solitary bear cub is most likely not there alone because of human activity. It's conceivable that its mother was killed by a hunter or a car or somesuch, but far more likely than not there is another explanation. A natural explanation.

Shortsighted people think they're helping; they're not. In fact, they're doing greater harm. The gene pool of Ursus americanus is dependent on the genes of those animals who either are incapable of surviving youth, or are incapable of being effective parents, not being passed onto the next generation of Ursus americanus. People are used to thinking of animals as individuals, but they are more pertinently species. There is no bear Cub Protective Services. There's no bear Medicaid or bear Social Security. Black bears as a collective species are depending on natural selection to maintain the viability of the gene pool. When people think "Oh, I'm going to save this individual critter from naturally being selected out of the gene pool because it will make me feel better!", they're doing something for themselves and they're doing something for one critter but they doing nothing good for that species, which doesn't need those genes artificially perpetuated by feel-good human intervention.

That's all well and good but most humans have kind hearts especially when it comes to baby animals and would have done the same thing. What if the bear cub was completely healthy for the "gene pool" but its mother had been hit by a car or killed by a hunter (out of season)?


Maybe he should have waited longer than 10 minutes to see if mama bear came back but what if he waited 30 minutes, 60 minutes? If she never showed up and the cub seemed near death should he have just left it there to die? How many caring people could do that?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:52 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,861,550 times
Reputation: 23410
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
That's all well and good but most humans have kind hearts especially when it comes to baby animals and would have done the same thing. What if the bear cub was completely healthy for the "gene pool" but its mother had been hit by a car or killed by a hunter (out of season)?


Maybe he should have waited longer than 10 minutes to see if mama bear came back but what if he waited 30 minutes, 60 minutes? If she never showed up and the cub seemed near death should he have just left it there to die? How many caring people could do that?
By taking the animal to a wildlife rehab it's out of the gene pool anyway. You can't safely release a black bear once it's been desensitized to humans. You can only keep it in captivity indefinitely or kill it.

The correct course of action, as the article stated about ten thousand times, is to call the local Fish & Game (or whatever the region's equivalent is) and let the knowledgeable professionals deal with it. "Rescuing" the animal oneself is more often primarily about playing hero rather than about doing what's right, IMO.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:01 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,883,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
By taking the animal to a wildlife rehab it's out of the gene pool anyway. You can't safely release a black bear once it's been desensitized to humans. You can only keep it in captivity indefinitely or kill it.
.
Actually, the Russians have developed an effective method for rescuing orphan bear cubs, and later releasing them back into the wild, as I pointed out earlier. The video explains it. The adolescent bears have managed fine on their own, after being released. Our own wildlife rescue centers should study and replicate that method. Not that orphaned bears are a frequent problem in the US, but still....it doesn't hurt to learn new care methods.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:06 AM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,505,661 times
Reputation: 35712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Yes whats wrong with what the guy did.. SHOWING CARING AND COMPASSION!!!
Why don't all of you alleged animal lovers just allow nature to take care of itself. The momma bear would have come back or the cub may have died. Perfectly natural in either case.

I say charge and convict the guy.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:10 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,815,515 times
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Upon reading more information about this, I have to admit, I would have probably done the same thing, or at least understand his reasoning for the actions taken.

The cub was in an obvious emancipated state, to the point he thought it was dead. He wondered about the mother but no signs of one around after waiting for a bit, and mother bears are usually always around their cubs. Who knows about cell reception to contact anyone, and even giving precise location for someone to come, let alone how long would it take them. Also, it is easy to look in hindsight on what the correct (maybe not correct, but legal) actions would be, but here is a guy, hiking along, and all of a sudden come up on this situation; he is not exactly in the frame of mind to start rolling over the legalities of the situation and analyzing the correct action process charts in his head. Additionally, it is not like he kept the thing for a pet, he immediately sought treatment for it.

This is different than the Yellowstone bison incident, where the herd was clearly right there, and the calf did not look even close to being emancipated nor abandoned.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:13 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,815,515 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Why don't all of you alleged animal lovers just allow nature to take care of itself. The momma bear would have come back or the cub may have died. Perfectly natural in either case.

I say charge and convict the guy.
Sure, I would buy this if not for the fact humans have been actively involved in this "let nature take care of itself" process. The mother could have been shot, hit by a car, or who knows. They just saved two cubs in Montana because the mother was shot. Also, this is against the grain of many people who instinctively wish to assist humans and animals in trouble, many people even risk their life to do this. If you think laws are going to do away with this, you are crazy and just making criminals out of normal, decent acts.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:52 AM
 
2,144 posts, read 1,878,970 times
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Too many people have compassion and not enough people have respect. In my opinion, they both need to be exercised regularly.

Taking a cub in any condition out of its natural home may be all soft and warm-hearted, but it certainly isn't respecting nature for what it is.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:52 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,861,550 times
Reputation: 23410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Actually, the Russians have developed an effective method for rescuing orphan bear cubs, and later releasing them back into the wild, as I pointed out earlier. The video explains it. The adolescent bears have managed fine on their own, after being released. Our own wildlife rescue centers should study and replicate that method. Not that orphaned bears are a frequent problem in the US, but still....it doesn't hurt to learn new care methods.
a)Those are not American black bears. Different bear species have different behavior patterns.

b)That video contained zero information about the efficacy of their methods or the long term outcomes for the bears they've released (intend to release? Not clear on whether they've ever even done it yet, based on the clip). It also did not discuss where the releases are taking place (e.g. did they find somewhere in remote Russia a bear might reasonably be expected not to encounter humans again?).

Last edited by Frostnip; 04-01-2017 at 12:38 PM..
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:57 AM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,583,182 times
Reputation: 22772
Quote:
Originally Posted by PesachSeder View Post
This didn't happen in Jellystone Park.
I almost spit out my Dr. Pepper lol
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