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Well, he went quite a ways beyond just verbal abuse when he killed two people and seriously injured a third. When it's boiled down what he did isn't any different than these other knife attacks we've been seeing.
I don't agree.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that he intended anything more than verbal abuse, which, while vile enough, might not be enough to be legally construed as violence under the definition of terrorism.
Interesting that the white man's actions are effectively dismissed because he's deemed crazy. He's a known white supremacist ... he's basically the counterpart to an ISIS supporter. He's a terrorist. Let's call a spade a spade.
And a lot of ISIS supporters would qualify for one or more diagnoses of mental illness, too. Crazy is as crazy does.
I don't agree.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that he intended anything more than verbal abuse, which, while vile enough, might not be enough to be legally construed as violence under the definition of terrorism.
It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. The big point is two guys are dead who needn't be. How they might have avoided ending up that way seems a better point of discussion.
Depends on which grand scheme. If the grand scheme is prosecuting, or even discussing, this as a terrorist act, then, of course it matters.
If the grand scheme is how to avoid these things in the future, then this post
Seems a pretty good place to start.
Don't confront the abuser directly, but engage the victim
Excuse me, but what did the other half of my post you quoted say? "Two people are dead who needn't be. And how they could have avoided ending up that way is a better point of discussion." I terribly dislike being cherry picked and quoted out of context deliberately. I also commented on the second post you quoted in a positive manner earlier. Whether or not the stabber classifies as a "terrorist" or not I have repeatedly stated is a waste of time in comparison to discussing what we might do if finding ourselves in such a situation as on this train, which is not unlikely at all anytime anywhere. This sort of thing seems to be happening at an increasing rate.
Whether he qualifies as a terrorist is a point the prosecution can discuss, but it doesn't really matter to those of us who might find ourselves facing this sort of thing. We need only classify such people one way at that level. "Threat. Probably deadly." Are semantics really worth arguing about beyond that? Not from where I'm sitting.
As I stated earlier the tactic of engaging with the victims and thus putting the abuser on "ignore" is basically sound. That's a judgement call that would have to be made as an on scene matter. This clown in Portland was willing to kill to continue his tirade. He may not have just let ignore slide by. If using this tactic, it would be prudent to have a weather eye on the abusive individual. Things might easily still turn violent. There are a LOT of variables in any confrontation on the street or otherwise in public venue. Someone who is capable of going off on a tirade like the creep at issue here should be assumed, out of hand, to be capable of anything. Drugs and/or alcohol could easily be involved, which is drinking kerosene and peeing on a brushfire.
Again, it's a natural reaction to want to take up for those who can't take up for themselves. Chivalry is obviously NOT dead as evidenced by this incident. Chivalry is a thing best tempered with prudence, however. By all means, act, but do not do so lightly. There is even a possibility the ones you are trying to help will react negatively to your doing so. Expect the unexpected. One should handle volatile situations like the bottled nitroglycerin they are. Positive outcomes are great, but how many of those do we actually hear about? These are the things that bear discussion for us. What to label the perpetrator really is inconsequential. As I said there's only one label to use at this level. "Probably deadly threat."
What's disgusting to me is that the behavior of the two men comes under scrutiny by fearful cowards who would rather we all sit and do nothing while a man verbally assaults helpless young girls. Dear God, what has happened to American, the home of the brave?
Some people cannot stand by and idly watch hate being spewed. And clearly the women WERE in physical danger because this guy had a serious weapon.
I am saddened (but not surprised) that so many are basically victim blaming here.
I'm not seeing so much victim blaming but rather alternative\better ways to deal with a nutjob like this.
Frankly, I'd tell my own kids to look at instances like this where as long as the guy wasn't attacking the gals, you need to worry about escalating it (he might have a gun etc.)
I've diffused a few violent situations over the years in bars etc. just by buying a few drinks or diverting the conversation, attention etc.
This is ESPECIALLY good advice if you do not have strong martial training, aren't armed or typically weaker.
Most people in the US are totally unprepared to defend themselves if a situation goes lethal like this one.
What's disgusting to me is that the behavior of the two men comes under scrutiny by fearful cowards who would rather we all sit and do nothing while a man verbally assaults helpless young girls. Dear God, what has happened to American, the home of the brave?
Considering the outcome, is there not some valuable wisdom to gain from this encounter?
We ALL want to help the girls in this encounter like these men did (prayers for their family) but what is the RIGHT way to do it?
Clearly the assailant was better armed, more physically trained and capable because he stabbed 3 guys not just the 2 that died and then escaped.
It's like a good self defense class discussion. If you cannot reasonably ward off the assailant you need to be able to call for help, draw attention etc.
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